Earlier this past week, I took my car into the dealership to have work done for various things still covered under warranty. After the initial diagnostic, the service representative and mechanic told me I needed several things done, including replacing cracked lower control arms, and worn brake pads. The brake pads were down to 5% apparently.
I decided to not have an $800 repair done right away. Yesterday I took my car to where I bought my tires for a rotation and oil change. I asked the mechanic to show me the cracks in the lower control arms, and both he and I searched high and low with no success. Everything looked fine, including the bushings.
Today, I changed out my brake pads in the driveway. Surprise surprise, the pads were only worn down halfway. I changed them out anyways. The dealership was trying to bilk me for almost a grand of unneeded repairs. Luckily I have the initial diagnostic printout listing all these crucial repairs.
It makes me wonder how often repair facilities feel the need to lie to customers just to bring in extra revenue. Unfortunately for these people, they work at a Honda dealership, which strives to ensure customer satisfaction, to the point of annoyance. Storms coming assholes. Maybe nothing will come from dropping in to make a complaint. I don't much care. Fuck these people--liars and cheaters.
Owning a car is the worst investment ever. I'm looking forward to offloading it.
myriam [email] said at 10:26 PM 12-02-2007: That does suck, but is completely not surprising. Don't be tempted to blame the mechanics, though--it's the dealer, through and through. Dealers are pretty much the devil. My father is a mechanic, has been with probably about 15 different dealerships over the years, and has had to sue / take part in a lawsuit 2x to get pay issues straightened out, etc. The pressure dealers put on mechanics to find shit wrong with cars is INSANE. Remember that in most of the country, dealers have gotten together in cartels to prevent mechanics from forming or joining unions, and in these areas the mechanics are typically paid only for the work they actually do in a day--although they have to be there at work for the full 8-10 hour shift regardless. So my father worked for years from 6am to 6pm, he had to stay as long as possible just in the hope that a legitimate job would come in and be given to him just so that he could actually earn money for his day there. There were days he stuck around the whole day and got literally nothing--NOTHING. They aren't paid if they don't have a job come in. It's just like waitresses, except that there isn't steady customer flow and there's like 20 mechanics sitting around that have to fight over the 1 job that comes in. It is horrible, horrible. And the shit the dealers pull on the mechanics is BAD--my dad once got fired for allegedly leaving a FINGERPRINT on the inside of a Lexus door (which he didn't). With no warning, btw. They wanted to be rid of him because he was seen as a troublemaker. Guess why? Because he was the only mechanic there who kept an independent log of his hours, and he figured out that the dealership was stiffing the mechanics on overtime and filed a class action lawsuit for the back pay on behalf of all the mechanics there (and won). Then they fired him, with no reason or warning. There's no job protection and no guaranteed pay in the biz--it sucks.
Ok sorry about the rant. Just wanted to give you a little heads up. You should all try to go to independent shops as much as possible instead of the dealerships. My dad always says, "never trust the dealership." He refuses to let us buy our used cars from dealerships because he knows what they do to fake fix them up for sale.
anthony [email] said at 2:25 AM 12-03-2007: I definitely appreciate the heads up. The only reason I went to the dealership in the first place is because the repairs I really needed were covered by an extended warranty. I know that the mechanics there only make money off of the repairs they do. I just hate the level of dishonesty and the idea that most people are ignorant about cars and can be easily taken advantage of. The pressure they are put under sucks. If anything, I just want verbal recognition that someone was lying.
The process of buying a car is the worst, unless you're buying new and money is no issue.
kara [email] said at 8:54 AM 12-03-2007: It does suck. I sunk myself 1000 further into debt a few months ago having things fixed for my emissions test. They told me I had an axle that was dangerously broken or about to break or something? That wasn't too bad but then when I drove my car home the brakes were frighteningly slow.. hardly responding at all. I should have brought the car somewhere else but I figured they broke something.. I forget what they said it was but they charged me a ton more for it.
Not a dealership btw.
anthony [email] said at 10:05 AM 12-03-2007: Are your brakes still doing this? If anything it sounds like they maybe had to disconnect a brake line when putting in a new axle, and the line either leaked or got air bubbles in it.
kara [email] said at 11:40 AM 12-03-2007: no I brought the car back and they charged me more to fix something that was alledgedly wrong with the brakes too
art [email] said at 10:24 AM 12-03-2007: Dealer's suck alien wang. Never go to a dealership to get a car worked on. You were right to walk out and think about the repair. My final straw with a dealer was when they told me I had to replace my entire drive shaft at $1200 when I was able to get away with simply replace a universal joint at $45.
john [email] said at 1:59 PM 12-03-2007: I took my car into the Honda dealership two days ago for the 60,000 mile service that they so strongly recomend. The price they quoted me when I dropped off the car was $508.00 which is rediculous but I was just like, fuck it, it needs the work done. Later, the guy called me at home and listed several things that they had found which needed to be done (new tires, dirty brake fluid needed to be bleeded and changed, new battery, etc.) with the main thing being something about my front end bushings being worn down. He said that they would change my bushings for $241 EACH. Now if I had agreed to have this done, along with all of the other things that they found then my final bill would have totaled a little over $1500!!!! Not to mention the $130 an hour labor fee. There's no way I need to be spending that much money on a basic 60,000 service. My car is still pretty much like new in my oppinion. So I told him not to do ANYTHING extra and I basically ended up paying $508 for a glorified oil change. They changed the transmission fluid and tightened the belts too but I certainly paid way to much. So I made a list of the things that he said I needed done extra and I'm just going to go to Pep Boys and do the shit myself and save about a grand. The front end bushings? I have no idea what that really is or what it means that they are worn but if my car ever starts riding funny because of them, then I'll go get them changed but not until then.
anthony [email] said at 2:32 PM 12-03-2007: I believe the front end bushings are actually part of the lower control arms. They told me the same shit about the 60k service, and needing new tires.
I am thinking of doing the 60k service somewhere else, or even myself. Never buy air filters or wiper blades from a service place. These are things that can be done easily on your own with the help of a screwdriver.
Brake pads are easy to change too...at least on a Honda. I can't imagine spark plugs and cables to be too involved either. Changing and tightening belts is kind of a pain in the ass. I have replaced two alternators over the years and getting belts on lists low on the fun scale.
Does your area have any "Japanese Auto" places? They tend to do the best work on the cheap.
john [email] said at 2:46 PM 12-03-2007: Yeah, tightening the belts is something that I certainly didn't want to do myself and I knew that it needed it because I could hear things that lead me to believe that it was the belts so that's the main reason that I chose to just let the dealer do their 60k service. I was kind of in a bind with time, etc. and it was the easiest thing to. My car does run better now although I wasted a lot of money. I had my brake pads done at a small shop down the road from my house a few months back and they were fairly cheap and didn't try to screw me. You're right though, the battery, wiper blades, air filter, etc. can all be done at home with a screw driver. Chicago is loaded with auto mechanic shops. I'm going to go anywhere but the dealer if I think that the bushings ever become a real threat. I'll look around for a japanese auto place. I'm not on the road a lot because of all the public transportation in Chicago so I don't want to be spending a ton on car maintenance.
anthony [email] said at 2:52 PM 12-03-2007: Yeah, time is definitely a factor. I think in the age of convenience, the idea of making an appointment to drop your car off for service and then waiting for an indefinite amount of time allows places like dealerships and Jiffy Lube to exploit laziness. I usually pop into Jiffy Lube last minute. Although, they do vacuum my floors.
If I ever move to Chicago, I will probably try to not own a car if at all possible.
woody [email] said at 4:43 PM 12-03-2007: If you have front end problems (shimmy, uneven braking, etc) go to an alignment place. They will properly diagnose it. If you can't detect a problem yourself, you do not need front end work, IMO. They like to use bushings because you don't have a hoist at home and most people would not know where to look anyway. Ask them to hoist it and show you the bushings, I bet they're barely worn.
brandonA [email] said at 2:27 PM 12-03-2007: I've had some bad experiences with dealers, but I'm lucky that my current one goes out of it's way not to screw me. They do lots of little things for free, and the one serious problem I've had (bad $1500 clutch), they actually finagled so that the warranty would cover it.
Since my car came with a maintenance warranty, I've spent maybe 30 bucks on car maintenance in over three years, for a tire rotation.
john [email] said at 2:55 PM 12-03-2007: Another thing that I hate about going to the dealer is that they just plug your car into the computer diagnostic system and go with whatever the computer says is wrong without really checking it out. I wonder if they even look at the battery when the computer says that you need a new battery. I think the computer just runs through a program that says this car has x ammount of miles on it, therefore it needs x services done on it....." and I think the dealer just takes that printout and tells the customer that his or her car is in need of these things. Some of the things that the honda dealer told me that I needed seem to be still o.k. to me. But the charge for them to just have the computer tell them what needs servicing is through the roof.
woody [email] said at 4:23 PM 12-03-2007: Not sure what year car you're talking about, but most diagnostics are onboard now. The computer they link to just reads all the codes from your car's memory and interprets them by the book. So it might be recording "bad sensor X" or "no vacuum on vapor return" and that sends the mechanic on a list of possible causes. They start replacing things until the code goes away.
And that's why it cost me $150 for a new gas cap! And it wasn't even the problem.
brad [email] said at 4:05 PM 12-04-2007: I really wish I knew more about cars when I read about shit like this. Or had a good mechanic friend. I hope your complaining accomplishes something.
How much were you charged just for the diagnostic? I remember being really annoyed for getting a steep charge once just so my car could be hooked up to a computer, something that required very little labor or expense on their behalf. At least I wouldn't think so.
Also, you said you look forward to offloading it. Are you moving some place where you don't need a car?
anthony [email] said at 6:51 PM 12-04-2007: Everything I know about cars I've learned from working on my own through the years. It pays to pick your battles wisely. Usually the only thing holding most back from doing most repairs is a good working place, and the right tools.
I was charged just under a hundred for the diagnostic. They deduct it off your bill should you get it repaired at that facility. I am unaware of the labor involved in diagnosing a car, but I am sure most veteran mechanics take very little time to do so.
I might be heading somewhere, but nothings set in stone. If anything I'll be more prone to live in a city with public transportation if I can help it. The suburbs, while awesome in many many ways, have been less than ideal in others.
woody [email] said at 7:06 PM 12-05-2007: The diagnostic fee is to pay for the $100k they had to spend on the diagnostic machine. Fair or not, that's how it works.
julie [email] said at 11:44 AM 12-05-2007: I'm lucky to have a mechanic I trust, as well as a few friends who are good with cars, but MAN I hate the way we're just sitting ducks for whatever the shifty ones want to sell us. Especially as a female, I've been in situations where I've felt like a total dupe, as the guy says, "Well, I'll tell ya, I wouldn't let my mom or my sister drive on tires like these..." while I'm fuming because wtf, is he trying to threaten me? I can see how worn (or not worn!) my tires are just as well as he can, in spite of the fact that I don't have a penis.
Also, I love how the guys at Jiffy Lube are all, "Your left turn signal is out, would you like us to fix it?" "Uh, you mean would I like to pay you $25 to change a frickin lightbulb!?!? A lightbulb that costs $2.99 which I have in my toolbox at home already, just waiting for this day to come!? A lightbulb which I've changed on my own twice already over the last 7 years even though i'm just a dumb girl!? FUCK NO!"
julie [email] said at 1:23 PM 12-05-2007: Kara Power (tm). Or else they list the cost of the bulb by itself and hide the rest of the exorbitant fees under "maintenance" on your bill? But probably Kara Power (tm).
kara [email] said at 1:37 PM 12-05-2007: Nah they're just a nice place with a good head mechanic I think. They've always been really helpful. They just add the cost of the light bulb to the cost of the oil change.. I remember it coming up a few months ago when I got one.
brandon [email] said at 12:36 PM 12-05-2007: If it's any consolation, Jiffy Lube assumes that all of their customers are rubes who don't know shit about cars (otherwise why would we go to Jiffy-Lube?) I go every once in a while, because I am a rube, and when I'm too busy to do it myself, and they've tried to sell me the 25$ light change, the $30 dollar air-filter change and everything in between. "Sir your spark-plug is arcing to the transductioner, for $50 bucks I can rub lemon oil on it." Sitting in their lobbies, I've heard them make claims about the properties of particular brands of oil that would make P.T. Barnum blush.
