Add anything to this post that you're sure you could out-argue Josh about. I'll start.
SPORTS
The Washington Wizards are one of the most promising young teams in the NBA. With the addition of last year's draft pick Oleksiy Pechirov and this year's picks Nick Young and Dominick McGuire along with the improved play of forward Andre Blatche as well as going into training camp with a healthy Darius Songaila, the Wizards' bench looks to be pretty solid. And don't think that watching buddies Dwyane Wade and Lebron James reach the finals the last two years won't motivate Gilbert Arenas. I, personally can't wait for the NBA season to start.
Until it does, I'll have to continue to watch to see if my Atlanta Braves can stop futzing around and catch up with those stinkin' New York Mets who don't appear that anxious to win the NL East. With the NL West being pretty competitive it's unlikely that the National League's wild card team will come from any other division but that one so if the Braves are going to make noise they have to win the division and they have to do it now. Andruw Jones appears to be coming out of the slump of the first half of the season. Considering this is a contract year (in which he still stands to make a whole lot of money) his overall lack of production has been disappointing. If Andruw can get it going I think that will bode well for Los Bravos.
OTHER THINGS THAT JOSH CAN'T DISPUTE:
*Grass is green
*George W. Bush is the President of the United States
*Citizen Kane is a movie
*Potato is the name of Boson's dog
*I prefer Sam Smith's Oatmeal Stout to any other oatmeal stout I've had
*We live in Baltimore
*I saw Travis perform at the 9:30 club this past Monday night
*The Washington Nationals will NOT make the playoffs this year
*The first name of the guy that hosts the show after the Tonight show is Conan
*Dog is spelled d-o-g
*My experiences with Commerce Bank have been the best of any bank that I Reggie E. have ever dealt with
*I used to own a dog named Phantom
*sitting on my desk in front of my keyboard is a menu for Never on Sunday
*The Strokes' debut album Is This It was originally released with the song "New York City Cops" but the album was pulled from the shelves and re-issued without the track in the wake of September 11. I own copy of the original version of that album still in its original plastic wrap.
reggie [email] said at 1:28 PM 07-19-2007: True but notice I didn't say George W. Bush was running the country, I just said he is the President of the United States.
josh [email] said at 1:28 PM 07-19-2007: hey man, you posted a journal that mentioned me by name, about a conversation we were having that ended with "we'll have to continue this discussion later over beers"! you also mischaracterized me in the journal ("if it were up to josh this exchange would never happen"), so of course i am gonna respond... i can't think of a post that was more custom made for me to respond than that one.
reggie [email] said at 1:34 PM 07-19-2007: Ah-ha! I'm just talking about Killoggs in general. It's just funny to me how most posts on here turn out to be usually you and Kiche, or you and Jake. Or Jake and Kiche.
art [email] said at 3:24 PM 07-19-2007: i feel for you. i have a friend, Ron, like that. we always say "yeah, yeah, whateverrrrr, Ron". We say he Rontificates (pontificates).
josh [email] said at 3:29 PM 07-19-2007: i generally only post something i could be right or wrong about - meaning a fact that can be proven or disproven - when i know it's accurate.
otherwise, most things i post are opinions and those aren't generally wrong or right, just different from person to person.
generally when i post a fact-based thing that i don't know one way or the other, i say i don't know... like on reggie's post, i said "i would be suprised if the cafe wasn't the most profitable part of borders per square foot". reggie used to manage the cafe so he is in a position to say if my assumption is right or wrong, but i also put that out there in the way i phrased it, that i was in no position to know for sure, it was just a hunch. reggie is the expert so if he says its not, i would accept that with no problem.
honestly most back and forth i get into with rick or jake (or whoever) involves me commenting on one part of whatever it they said, then them taking my comment about one aspect to be an indictment of other aspects of their statement that i didnt address. then we go back and forth for a long time while i just reiterate my initial statement in different ways while saying "sure, but i'm not talking about that aspect of your post, just this one aspect".
this also happened with reggie, because on the IM/phone i was saying how i didnt think a record store could make much money, due to market factors, but he took that to mean i think it's great that there won't be record stores... which isn't what i meant, i was just saying that most record stores will go out of business, not making a value judgement about that. for some reason he took my view of where the music industry is going to be a prediction based on how i wanted it to go rather than a simple acknowledgement of where the trends seem to lead.
art [email] said at 3:34 PM 07-19-2007: yeah. i've noticed you tend to stick to topics you know a lot about. this is a good idea. i had (have?) a tendency to argue about things that i know _something_ about and that's when i get in trouble, so i'v worked to stay out of those kinds of subjects (in real life at least. i can bluff better on Killoggs)
reggie [email] said at 10:50 PM 07-19-2007: Actually the cafe did okay, it was pretty much a luxury for Borders. However, the recent switch to Seattle's Best cafes in every store is proof that the company saw room for growth.
reggie [email] said at 10:59 PM 07-19-2007: for some reason he took my view of where the music industry is going to be a prediction based on how i wanted it to go rather than a simple acknowledgement of where the trends seem to lead.
Well if someone called what you do obsolete wouldn't you take it a bit personally? I mean yeah, selling music ain't my choice for a career but it's what I've done for a long time and for the most part it's been a pretty fun ride.
Therefore, knowing what I know about the job and taking the experiences that I have had I know it's something that I'd like to see stick around for the future because it's healthier.
josh [email] said at 12:41 AM 07-20-2007: why would you take it personally? if you were a typewriter repairman in 1985 would you take it personally if someone was like "dude... i would take some classes or something..."?
reggie [email] said at 2:33 AM 07-20-2007: I don't know. Maybe? If I really loved repairing typewriters. Is it impossible for you to conceive that maybe dispite certain issues with the overall management of this specific company that maybe, just maybe, I like selling music?
josh [email] said at 5:38 PM 07-20-2007: again, im not talking about whether you like something or not... i'm saying that its very very hard to make money from CD sales, since CDs have razor thin margins these days, and there is massive competition from companies that dont have to make a profit (like target or best buy), or have way lest costs (like amazon.com and other e-stores).
how much you like something and how economic feasiblility are not really directly related.
josh [email] said at 7:38 PM 07-20-2007: its nothing to do with emotions is what im saying... i mean you obviously shouldnt open a business you wouldnt enjoy doing, but beyond that, you have to be sure you can pay the bills... i really don't see a lot of success at paying the bills by selling records. tony's store is an exception (or it seems to be, i dont know if he does well) but also it's a closet inside of another store, so i imagine that helps cut down on costs and brings more people in.
beyond that, it seems like record stores seem to be closing more than new ones are opening... it just seems like a very very competitive and rough business to be in these days, ESPECIALLY if you are courting indie markets because those kids download alot.
i think owning a record store would be really cool, and i like record stores. i just would never recommend anyone open one in 2007. that doesn't mean i hate record stores, or think they are an abomination... it just means what i said, sounds like a tough ass business to be in, these days.
josh [email] said at 8:08 PM 07-20-2007: tony is a friend of kara's (and mine) who owns celebration summer, which is a cool lil punk record store in the back room of legends in towson. being inside legends makes sense since there are always like 20 or so kids there playing magic/whatever the kids play these days, and maybe he will rub some punk rock off on them. plus i guess he rents from the legends guy instead of paying seperately to the landlord, so i bet his rent is cheeeeaaap.
reggie [email] said at 9:55 PM 07-21-2007: Something else that sparked this idear is that having worked FOR people in this exact industry for nearly a decade I think it's only natural for someone like me to feel that I can do it better.
Like maybe back in the day R&TT was run by passionate music lovers but now it's a 30 year old franchise in dying business and the decisions that are being made as an adjustment are made simply with the bottom line in mind. Not just in my company but by bigger businesses in general. Yet they're still failing to save it.
So why not approach it from the perspective of someone who actually still really loves everything about record stores. The camaraderie, the moments of inspiration, whatever.
There's also some deep-seeded fear that somewhere down the line music will die completely. I guess what I'm thinking is...if music is all online in the future then there will be an even larger proliferation of free illegal downloading. So much that the artists are going to be cut out of the loop and then realize that making music is not a profitable venture (if it ever was for small scale acts.) They can't live off of t-shirts can they? And how much money can be made off touring?
Additionally, I don't think companies that produce CD's will ever truly die because there are genres that aren't "singles" genres like jazz and classical. People who listen to either of those are very label-loyal (for instance some people will only look for a certain Mozart piece if it's put out by Deutche(sp)-Grammophon and jazz enthusiasts know they can trust something that has the Blue Note logo on it.) I wouldn't want some second-hand download of "My Favorite Things" or "Kind of Blue."
Wow, now my journal has crossed-over into my front page post...
josh [email] said at 3:31 AM 07-22-2007: the thing is, bands dont make much money off CD sales NOW... i dont see why you think music only exists because of CD sales... music existed way before recordings, and it will exist long after... you cant download the actual experience of a live show, of musicians performing. if there are no more CDs or records, music will still be created, and there will still be music lovers, as there were before CDs and records.
reggie [email] said at 10:34 AM 07-22-2007: i dont see why you think music only exists because of CD sales
I don't think that. Don't forget I work at a place that buys back used CD's and re-sells them (which a lot of stores do) there's no kick back to anybody there.
That's not my point. You need to stop focusing on the business and money side of things so daggone much.
I'm talking about a million years down the line after we're all dead and gone and some alien race shows up and starts excavating the remains of our society, what are they going to find that will make an immediate impact and immediately give them some kind of concept of who were (outside of greedy, warmongering sinners.)
They're going to find our books, they're going to find our paintings, our sculptures, our films (which will probably be disintegrated by then but you get the point) and they're going to find our music. They're going to hold in their hands a copy of ancient human classics like Beethoven's 5th, Kind of Blue and the Pussycat Dolls. They'll probably deduce that these large black vinyl discs contain sonic recordings.
I don't give a rat's nasty booty about CD's so much as just physical copies of the art we produce.
THAT'S it! That's what I'm talking about! Of course these theoretical aliens would also find our computers and probably be able to extract all the information contained on them (including music files.) But the thing that they would put in their museums are those round discs that contained the music.
Yes, our musical instruments would likely be recovered too and those are perhaps more important than even the records. I'm sure this future museum will have a wing dedicated to our primitive computers and devices known as "iPods" but the things that will probably make a longer lasting impact will be LOOKING AT and HOLDING copies of the White Album, Aquemini or London Calling. Seeing how we juxtapose the music contained on the discs with the images presented on the cover, seeing how some artists chose to put lyrics in their jackets while some just put photographs or drawings.
THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE MUSIC BUSINESS, I CARE ABOUT THE MUSIC.
Those future aliens will figure out that somewhere in our history we stopped making these physical recordings and they'll probably laugh. They'll recognize the efficiency of it but they'll also realize how retarded it is that we allowed an entire artform to be reduced to a form that could be deleted at the push of a button.
josh [email] said at 12:48 PM 07-22-2007: i dont really understand the tangent you went on here, all i was saying is that music and music loving was around before the recording industry, and will be around after... as far as music lasting centuries to be excavated by future archeologists, i really can't attest to that.
reggie [email] said at 9:14 PM 07-22-2007: Also, I guess my overall fear is that I'm not convinced digital has any permanence and will not last once we're gone.
josh [email] said at 11:56 PM 07-22-2007: CDs definitely dont either... vinyl probably does. CDs only are predicted to last 50-100 years, and many of the first generation of CDs released are already unplayable due to the materials degrading. i have no idea how long a vinyl record would last. i guess a long time? i really don't know though. longer than a CD for sure.
josh [email] said at 10:01 AM 07-23-2007: well, it's pertinant to note - kiche talked about how CDs have alot of the same issues as digital files above, as they are both digital, but i don't think you addressed his comments.
if permanence and wanting the music to be understood by "someone after us" (be they another civilization or aliens oor whatever) is important, an analog format seems to be required... because one could relatively easily reverse engineer a record, as the music is physically imprinted and thus could be figured out. a CD would be a whole other level of difficulty... they'd have to figure out our binary system, tons of stuff. with vinyl, the waveforms are right there to be seen with a microscope or whatever.
unless, of course, you just meant "after we're gone" to mean like, our generation, in which case i wouldn't really worry... considering how most storage there will be in the near future, AND how much desire there will be for content to be consumed, i'm sure today's music will last quite a long time. plus there is the standard way music is carried down between generations - a musical tradition of people reinterpreting and replaying and preserving songs. this tradition, of course, is somewhat hampered by the copyright system which has been perverted extensively by corporate interests, partially to prop up their various cartels like the RIAA.
reggie [email] said at 11:19 AM 07-23-2007: I'm just saying, I knew it would be all logical and Spock-like. Although, I think I probably had vinyl in mind anyway.
josh [email] said at 12:05 PM 07-23-2007: when they sent music into space on that "time capsule" thing they shot out to alpha centauri, i believe they made a cylindar of copper with vinyl grooves on it.
woody [email] said at 12:59 PM 07-23-2007: Did it include a player? Because what if it was found by aliens, but all their players only played at 78rpm because they're less advanced than us, but the recording was made at 33 1/3rpm due to our highly modern tech? They would develop some pretty warped views of humans!
josh [email] said at 1:35 PM 07-23-2007: i believe it included some sort of mathematical glyphs that scientists said they hoped would be elementary enough to alien scientsist to figure it out. i read about it some young adult science magazine when i was in like middle school
abby [email] said at 6:57 PM 07-23-2007: seriously you guys that episode was scary. remember, mulder goes to the gigantic listening.. station thing in south america, and the aliens come to earth BLARING the golden record on the magical frequency? "greetings from earth, we step out into the universe" etc etc?
reggie [email] said at 11:23 AM 07-23-2007: Case in point: I wanted to listen to Capone N Noreaga's War Report last night and couldn't because of a "broken link." I know that broken links can be recovered but that would take more time than I was willing to commit. But man, it would have been so much easier to just pop the CD in my stereo and hit "play."
josh [email] said at 12:04 PM 07-23-2007: my counter point to this, amusingly using the same CD, is the other day i wanted to listen to this but knew it would take me like an hour to sort through my boxes of CDs to find it, so i just downloaded it off of sendspace in like 5 minutes. great album.
reggie [email] said at 1:01 PM 07-23-2007: I don't remember if I sold mine or have it buried in a milk crate. It's not in my big CD notebook deal that I keep right near my desk.
I was in the process of writing a MySpace blog about some of the great "posse cuts" in hip-hop history and wanted to hear "L.A., L.A."
josh [email] said at 3:52 AM 07-22-2007: "They can't live off of t-shirts can they? And how much money can be made off touring?"
all the following is based on conversations i've had with artists and label owners... take it witha grain of salt but i think its generally true.
most bands make way more money off those two things than they make from their CDs. even before downloading. for example, the band i went on tour with was selling their CDs, but they had to buy them from their label... at the same wholesale rate that the label would charge a record store. so 80% of the money recieved from the record went to paying the label back at the end of tour. this is on top the fact that the label can recoup all expenses related to the record from the band... so say between recording and marketing the record costs $50K to produce. so the band has to accrue $50k in royalties before they see a dime - very few bands will make $50K in royalties on a release.
many mid level bands signed to corporate type labels (even indie ones but ones that are run like a bigger one) will end up using money made on tour and merch to pay back the debt accrued by their CD release and marketing.
now of course, that doesnt apply exactly to artists that are big enough to have gold or platinum records, but consider also that those artists DO get more money spent on them, and it's often all recoupable. so if the new strokes album generated $1 million in theoretic royalties but cost $950,000 to market and release, then the band makes 50,000 off the record.
as cam'ron said "cam boy, you gotta recoup, else you be back on your block, dead on your stoop"
anyway, back on point - basically the band makes little from selling the CD but then they can sell shirts that cost them $5 for $10 or $15. and they get paid well from the door... many small but with a following artists can command $1000 guarantees, and then say 75% of the door after the club costs are taken care of.
so if the club costs are say $500, and the show makes $3000, the band gets $1000, the club gets $500, then the band gets 75% of 1500... their are tour costs to take into account thats not all profit but you can see how tours can be pretty lucrative for bands with a decent fan base (not for bands that play in basements though, of course).
so, yeah, bands that have followings can certainly do well by touring and selling merch.
jake [email] said at 4:50 PM 07-19-2007: Sometimes it takes hours or years, but on the rare occasion when he does (or just gives a mealy mouthed retraction or "nevah mind," the immediate headrush is like nitrous, and the boozy glow lasts for days.
art [email] said at 4:52 PM 07-19-2007: I would be eager to find some proof that this happened. It would be like finding gold at the end of the rainbow
jake [email] said at 5:46 PM 07-19-2007: Just read through all of the threads of argument between Josh and me. There's 2 or 3 moments. Shouldn't take you more than a year.
Bendependent [email] said at 2:43 PM 07-19-2007: Ah screw it, I'll have a crack at this one...
1. Grass is not green. The chemical structure of the molecules you call "grass" absorb all of the wavelenths of white light, whereas they reflect what you call "green" the most. Therefore "green" is merely a property of "grass", and not what determines what it is.
2. The words "president" and "United States" represent ideas. Ideas are abstract, and therefore can not be universally defined. To someone in Mexico George W. Bush might be called "el Presidente de los Estados Unidos", which OBVIOUSLY does not mean the same thing.
3. Hey! Didn't you go to "FILM" school?
4. This is true so long as you continue the sentence by qualifying your statement with "...to Boson and those in his circle of friends who have been told that his dog is named Potato." To other dogs, I'd be willing to bet Potato's name is some low gutteral noise.
5. That's nice. It's not an argument though. You would have to give reasons as to why the claim is true. An argument needs to be supported with reasoning.
6. More qualification please. "Reggie and I live in a territory that some people call 'Baltimore'".
7. Did they look good? I'm hoping you heard them also.
8. They have never "made" the playoffs. I'm not sure who created the playoffs, but I doubt it was the Washington Nationals.
9. See #4
10. "...in the English language."
11. See #5
12. Does anyone like really "own" anything, man? Furthermore, can you really "own" another living creature?
13. A menu does not have hindquarters, therefore it cannot "sit". It's probably "laying" on your desk.
josh [email] said at 3:39 PM 07-19-2007: no, its about your lack of knowledge related to me. the subtext is that you are a bad friend who doesn't understand me!!!!
reggie [email] said at 10:48 PM 07-19-2007: Gosh Ben why do you always have to be right! As for Potato, she's told me that if you translate her name into to caninese it actually does translate into Potato.
Bob said at 12:39 AM 07-20-2007: Potato's name in canine is actually probably a smell. His butt or his whizz, I'd guess. Maybe one is a first name and the other is a last name...
reggie [email] said at 4:55 PM 07-23-2007: The house is not yet presentable...it's in the works. I mean, we've only just now gotten to the point where all three of us are in the house at the same time.
reggie [email] said at 8:51 AM 07-24-2007: Well, of the issues I brought up in THIS post what have I defended? Nothing. All the "defending" here is about a completely different post entirely.
