I forgot to take my meds for two days, and besides having fizzy brain and wanting to beat up strangers, I also regained my sex drive. This presents me with a dilemma (where's the Dilemma category, Josh?) since, even though I don't actually have sex, I now remember that it's quite nice to at least want to. Orgasms are also fun, which I had completely forgotten.
I suppose I could just stop taking the meds entirely and wait for the fizzy brain to go away, but I suspect I would still want to beat up strangers, and then of course there's the "life is pointless, humans are all merely apes striving for maximum power over other apes and the universe is malign" factor, which is more or less my default setting.
Trying other meds is pointless, since I've tried several and across the board, if they work, then either I don't want to have sex, or I want to have sex but don't feel much when I do. In fact, their effectiveness is apparently in direct proportion to their capacity to annihilate my libido.
This seems to be a rather harsh trade-off. Then again, when I'm actually taking the drug (Effexor, or as I like to call it, Efixher), I really don't give a rat's ass that I have no libido. Maybe I just need it in patch form.
josh [email] said at 6:41 PM 09-13-2006: maybe try not taking it one weekend a month. it could be your "craigslist personals weekend"... or, if you prefer a more professional solution, your "male escort weekend"
kara [email] said at 6:51 PM 09-13-2006: Antidepressants don't really quite work like that. They need to build up in your system to be effective, and also the "fizzy brain" withdrawal would be hard to deal with every weekend, and also would make drinking a bad idea.
dianne [email] said at 6:35 AM 09-14-2006: Actually, Effexor has the shortest half-life among antidepressants, so I hear. I can testify that I feel its effects within hours, and I feel its absence after two missed doses.
milky [email] said at 9:36 AM 09-14-2006: The half-life was so damn short in the non-extended release tablets, you got the jones within 2-4 hours of a missed dose. The "kick-in" period for that initial morning dose...one could clock it in right at about a half-hour.
shauna [email] said at 1:11 PM 09-16-2006: this stuff sucks. and even worse, i didn't notice or care that it sucked. i was practically like, well, i'm in my late 20s, i guess sex isn't all that important.
i finally got a doc that isn't owned by the pharm companies and he's weaning me off one thing at a time to see what i need and what i don't. it's hard, and i seem to always have the fizzy brain, and it's taking for goddam ever...but i'm finally almost off all the effexor. and want to do it constantly.
see if your dose is still right for where you are right now.
dianne [email] said at 3:06 PM 09-14-2006: yeah, the quick turnaround should make it easy to take "sex weekends." except the fizzy brain sets in right after the sex drive. so there's a golden window of a few hours there when you have your libido back but before your brain starts fizzing. timing is everything.
milky [email] said at 3:19 PM 09-14-2006: It never hurts to have low level benzos like ativan and something small for vertigo as well (phenergan, anivert).
I worked around it for the better part of 4-5 years before I switched to something that didn't make me jones so bad.
I'd reckon it's like the timing people work around with Viagra, just smaller.
The sex made the fizzy brain a little clearer...have some small NON-xr doses (tablets, no capsules) around, half em, etc...that way you can get rid of the cloudiness/fizziness when you're sleeping. I mean, you know your body's reaction to this stuff the best. Carry a pill cutter with ya and take a week to see what works.
julie [email] said at 7:27 PM 09-13-2006: I was on medication for several years that killed my libido (though I didn't realize the connection for a while). I ended up deciding not to take it anymore. But, it wasn't crucial to my health like yours is. So... this is a really tough call.
Why do so many medications affect our sex drive!? This is such bullshit. I hope one of the many lurking representatives of the pharmaceutical industry is reading Killoggs right now.
craig [email] said at 7:30 PM 09-13-2006: It's a conspiracy. The government does not want crazy people to reproduce, so they work with the pharmaceutical companies to inhibit the sex drives of people on anti-depressants and other such meds.
kara [email] said at 7:42 PM 09-13-2006: Maybe it's that antidepressants bring out the mysterious alternative chemical joy of happiness, whereas non-medicated types tend to seek out the joy of happiness in more instinctual, carnal ways.
Maybe it's like being on diet pills and you think you are happy to be thin but you really miss the feeling of wanting a good meal.
craig [email] said at 7:45 PM 09-13-2006: I always just figures that this type of medication just removed the good and the bad and kind of left you somewhere in the middle, feeling kind of numb. Or maybe it's just my job that does that.
Michael said at 9:06 PM 09-13-2006: ha-ha. I think you're close to something there... the meds do sorta even things out, losing the highs and the lows, but I don't think thats really a sex drive thing. I think its because these drugs increase serotonin, which is a natural anti-depressant, but which also has disruptive effects on testosterone and estrogen - basically, the neurotransmitters tend to exist in sort of a balance, and when you boost one you hurt another. But the jury's still out on that - other people think that its just the sense of satiety produced by the drug which decreases sex drive...
myriam [email] said at 11:18 PM 09-13-2006: There's this book I was flipping through the other day about twin sisters who realize as they grow up that one of them has paranoid schizophrenia. She happens to be brilliant--a poet and writer--and the "normal" sister goes on to become a psychologist as a result of their life. Anyway the book is fascinating b/c it atlernates chapters between how the "normal" psychologist caregiver sister sees her sister's problems, and then first-person accounts from the schizoid describing what she sees and thinks when she's not on drugs and what she sees and thinks when she is. She sort of records things rather than reflects on them, so you don't get any preachy overtones but you learn to see how she sees and it's fascinating. I thought, 'wow, I can see why these people go off their meds all the time... it's more complicated then I thought.' It was called "Patty and Me" or something.
dianne [email] said at 3:20 PM 09-14-2006: i think they do sort of take away the real highs and lows, although it's probably not that simple. but often, when i've gone off meds, i noticed it first not by suddenly feeling miserable, but by finding something intensely beautiful or meaningful, and realizing that what i was feeling was joy. i can feel pretty happy on meds, but i don't often feel joy.
however, for those of you who would say that the joy and the sex (and the joy of sex) make it worth it to tough out the lows, bear in mind that my lows metastasize over time until i don't have highs much anymore. and that every down has been worse than the last. depression tends to get worse with age. i feel like i'm playing a game of trade-offs in which the stakes get higher and higher.
milky [email] said at 3:34 PM 09-14-2006: I may be one of the only people here that can read what you just wrote and completely understand it...
The bad cycles, if not medicated, are pretty heinous. Coming off the meds is like focusing a lense or tuning a radio...there's some clarity and joy, but the end-result trade-off just isn't worth it. I won't even get into discussing the lows...I do that in sessions on my own time, where I'm safe enough to say what's on my mind without fear.
That, and the lows have a different feel to them. Before, it was just a question of weeks, and when. Now it's like burrowing in for an unpredictable series of seasons. And I have more responsibilities now...I can't just "go off the meds and see if I'm strong enough to deal with it on my own" because the consequences would likely leave me unemployable in my field or related field, or employed at a job which would make me even more depressed. I'd literally have to take a solitary job, like janitorial or security guard work because at some point, my interaction with people would get jacked up as I "tried it on my own."
The highs I feel aren't like, bungee-jumping or street-luging highs (like they used to be), but I don't really want those kinds of highs at 30. I'll settle for periods of weeks where I can just say I feel pleasant and that things are do-able.
julie [email] said at 8:34 PM 09-13-2006: I wasn't on anti-depressants, but it seems to me that a lot of various medications have a negative effect on sex drive. It's weird.
brad [email] said at 1:19 AM 09-14-2006: My ex girlfriend used the Ortho Evra (spelling?) patch for a short period, and she was very moody and irritable on it, and I definitely saw a drop in her pleasure. Of course, I really have no way of knowing weather or not the patch was to blame, but I remember those symptoms going away very soon after she quit using it. I think I remember hearing recently that that same patch poses some sort of serious health risk to women, and it's been taken off the market.
brad [email] said at 1:33 AM 09-14-2006: Actually, they're still on the market, but they've been faced with lots of lawsuits, and now they have to sell it with this warning: "Serious risks, which can be life threatening, include blood clots, stroke and heart attacks and are increased if you smoke cigarettes."
mary [email] said at 5:08 PM 09-14-2006: yep. the issue with the patch is that they thought it was delivering less estrogen than the pill, but it turned out it was really delivering more.
I still think it's a good option for a lot of women, especially young women who have trouble stomaching the pill or trouble remembering it. I was pretty happy with it overall.
After I have this baby, though, it's IUD all the way.
katiee said at 7:33 PM 09-14-2006: the copper iud's of the 70s that got so much bad press are not the iud's of today. there are two variants, the plastic, hormone-releasing one called mirena (lasts for up to 5 years, removable by pulling on a string), and the copper, non-hormone based paragard (can last up to 15 years, non-surgical insertion and removal). they are the standard for married or monogamous women who have had a child ... extremely reliable, low-risk birth control that in most cases eliminates the hormonal side effects people experience on the pill, the patch, and the ring. mirena only uses progestins, as opposed to a progesterone-estrogen mix as is generally found in the pill/patch/shot/ring, and at a much lower dose. paragard uses no hormones at all. they're more reliable than other forms of birth control with fewer side effects. the only catch is that you've got a piece of plastic or metal just kind of hanging out inside your body. small price to pay for insurance against cluster babies, though.
katie [email] said at 11:48 PM 09-14-2006: it's verrrry easy to get pregnant within the first six months post-partum. i don't know why. it makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint, though - once the body is in fertility mode, it would make sense to make as many offspring as possible while the gettin's good. it's part and parcel of regular OB/midwife care these days to automatically offer birth control to new mothers. this IUD option being something that many women are opting for lately, due to its reliability and convenience.
however, exclusive breastfeeding on cue somehow magically lessens the likelihood of conception after giving birth. it doesn't work if you supplement with bottles or only nurse a couple of times a day, but if you are chained to the baby and the baby's chained to the tit, it's pretty effective contraception. and not just because saggy tits aren't sexy.
mary [email] said at 1:27 PM 09-16-2006: It's not magic, Katie! It's hormones! Which I am starting to think are a form of magic, actually. Otherwise, how could they make me clean out my closets.
Extended breastfeeding surpresses ovulation (which also helps protect you from ovarian cancer. bonus!)
Hormonal birth control works by tricking your body into thinking it's already pregnant/extending nursing all the time.
shauna [email] said at 1:16 PM 09-16-2006: that patch also ripped my skin into shreds and collected a ring of black sticky lint all around it. the opposite of sexxxy.
courtney [email] said at 12:51 PM 09-14-2006: I think this is generally true, but as for my personal experience, I am unsure whether to blame the decrease in libido I had many years ago on the Depo or just plain unhappiness in general. Took Ortho Tricyclen for a while which didn't help either.
On Yasmin, I feel great and my drive is better than ever. Other girls I know have said the opposite about Yasmin, that it killed their drive. Perhaps I'm just happier, and the pills have nothing to do with it.
Heh, I'm sure we had this convo before in the LC...
Michael said at 8:42 PM 09-13-2006: agreed, but if meds makes it bearable, I think thats more important than sex... the only reason we think sex is important is that our bodies tell us it is. I think meds (and maybe a nice meaningful relationship with somebody who hopefully also doesn't mind not having sex), if they make life bearable, are preferable to having sex and hating the world... I've been thru both sides, and luckily now that I'm in my 30's my biochemistry has calmed down enough to where I can exist peacefully in the world without the meds, but thru most of my 20's they were crucial. But the feeling that "life is pointless, humans are all merely apes..." etc never really goes away, only our sensitivity to that fact varies...
woody [email] said at 1:16 PM 09-14-2006: "the only reason we think sex is important is that our bodies tell us it is."
What a strange thing to say. We are genetically programmed to "need sex" so it's not like you can just talk yourself out of it. You can repress it, I suppose, but you still need it.
angelel said at 10:58 PM 09-13-2006: Yeah. Feel sorry for you. Been there. I can't live without my sex drive. I will take a hellish existence any day over a blunted sex drive. Lately, I was on Cymbalta. I was pretty happy with it because it wasn't at complete odds with my sex drive. For a period of time I was completely sane. My boyfriend who is all Tom Cruisey about psychopharmacology was even thrilled with how easy I was to get along with. Still, I decided to toss out the drugs. It got ugly for a while, but I went and lived in France all summer which healed me better than any medication could. You already tried that, though.
milky [email] said at 12:10 AM 09-14-2006: Peeps, jot this down: Remeron (mirtazapine), in a very small eveing dose, half a tablet...this will counteract the sexual side-effects/dysfunction/lack of drive.
brad [email] said at 1:05 AM 09-14-2006: I would just try excercising regularly. It seems that in the periods when I worked out regularly, I was both happy AND horny. I've been pretty unhappy myself lately, and I'm eager to get back into a fitness routine. Also, I know that's a huge pain in the ass when you're out of shape, but the more you do it, the more it just feels like a natural part of your day.
myriam [email] said at 1:02 PM 09-14-2006: Excercise floods your body (both men and women) with testosterone, which is a natural sexual stimulant. That's why you always feel really horny after you work out.
Also my personal belief is that this hormonal change also becomes apparent in your pheromones, because people who have just worked out are seriously fucking attractive right then.
woody [email] said at 1:18 PM 09-14-2006: Also, I think the longer time effect of high energy and increased blood flow from excercise both increase the horn factor.
abby at school said at 1:13 PM 09-14-2006: yeah, i have to get a replacement id and get back to the gym. my sex drive is never, ever failing, but i feel like im not sexually attractive enough for that to matter in the short or long term
plus my life is so depressing at this point, that being in shape could be the one thing for me to be joyful about.
plus i spent like $100 on that membership and need to make it pay!
milky [email] said at 1:22 PM 09-14-2006: I have a 6-month membership I can start whenever I want. This sucks, and the reason they're not holding me to an outright contract is that I'm still not physically recovered from surgery to hit the gym.
First of all, I'm really looking forward to your upcoming visit! We're gonna have fun!
I think you should consider asking your doctor if it would be okay for you to take a 2 or 3-week break from the meds, if you think you'll be able to function and won't suffer too much.
Isn't your brain chemistry supposed to change after years on drugs? Maybe you'll find that you are better able to deal with the world med-free than in the past.
Maybe you're scared or lack confidence about your ability to deal without drugs.
dianne [email] said at 4:14 PM 09-14-2006: Hey Cory! I can't wait to see you guys.
I may try taking a break from the meds, but not until after I make the family rounds. Not to mention I've got two houseguests right now, one of whom is my sweet, physically handicapped cousin. Not a good time to risk losing my shit.
I do think brain chemistry can be changed, if you're basically in good neurotransmitter health and you have at least a few friends for support. especially with a few cognitive therapy pointers. (i.e. you're normal, everybody fucks up, let it go, etc.)
of course, if both your parents are depressed recluses and your family abounds with alchoholic depressives, and you have a permanently jaundiced view of human nature, and you move across the ocean from all your friends and family, i suspect the chemical reset button pretty much needs to be held down permanently.
i dunno. i'd like to think that i could deal without the drugs. the past two years have been the loneliest of my life since i was 12, but i never totally lost it or got suicidal, compared with the previous 10 years when i could decide my life was over after the smallest setback. maybe i'm learning with age.
then again ... i had effexor the past two years. the rest of the time i was on and off stuff, trying one drug and then deciding i couldn't take the side effects, trying another, trying to go off them and rely on willpower, whatever that is. ("I propose a toast/to my self-control
You see it crawling helpless on the floor" -- Morphine)
all that trying, and now i just take a pill and two hours later, instant perspective. it's so weird. i did it again yesterday. what normally takes me a ferocious, minute-by-minute effort of will to achieve (that is, not thinking everything is hopeless), i can just take a pill and make it happen. and all i have to give up is orgasms.
actually, exercise might help, simple as it sounds. i walk a lot, but not usually for more than 10 or 15 minutes at a time, and i haven't "worked out" in years. i did buy a pair of rollerblades recently, and haven't cracked my head open yet, and when i get back from vacation i'll join a gym. maybe i'll ooze pheromones and meet someone. stranger things have happened.
shauna [email] said at 1:22 PM 09-16-2006: you seem really thoughtful and smart about what you need. don't bean yrself with the "willpower" thing, tho. there are times, sometimes really long expanses of time, longer than you wish, when no amount of willpower will get you out of the hole. you know all the different ways to try to pull yourself out, and meds are one way for some people. they saved my life. and then almost stole it..but!
you are never weak-willed for protecting yourself.
reggie [email] said at 8:38 AM 09-15-2006: This is one of the most fascinating posts I've read in a while. Made all the more fascinating by the fact that I really can't relate to it.
Also, if Tom Cruise were reading this he'd probably chastise you all. Silly actor man.
brian [email] said at 5:54 PM 09-16-2006: my solution to mental illness. anger all day long followed by depression in the evening after work, punctuated with a 4:30 nip off to the restroom for an afternoon refresher and masturbation till i pass out at nightl.
