The other day I told Josh about this virus that has made its way into San Antonio and now into my girlfriend's life, then into mine. It's like bronchitis. Sore throat, cough, feels like a hard kick in the chest. Michelle was doing really bad this morning and I felt like shit so we went to the hospital. Doctors are sort of hard to come by on Saturday. They gave her an Albuterol treatment with some mask. We both left with inhalers. I hate those damn things, but when it's hard to breathe you have to use them. Michelle's out cold right now. They gave her some cough syrup because she's worse off than I am and really needs rest. Ten hours or more of work a day plus being sick usually means you get worse. I'm glad she's finally resting. We were supposed to go to a clam bake. I don't know if we're going to go. Her parents come in next weekend, and she doesn't need to overdo it. Neither do I. I still can't figure out how my insurance plan works. They tell me I have a deductable of 500 dollars to make, then some tells me I don't have to, etc. I think I'm just going to pay it over two months and just get over with so if anyone asks I can just say 'YES, I PAID IT, HERE'S YOUR 20 BUCKS.'
The wildflowers are beautiful here. I've been out West and I've seen wildflowers, but I've never enjoyed them as much as I have here. If there were cool wildflowers in Louisiana, some dumbass would just cut them down. Patches of color on green grass makes me smile, huge patches when you get on the outskirts of town, next to the brush and small trees. Sometimes I see a few rabbits. Lately, there has been a single bird that hangs out in a tree outside of our apartment. It provides a single song heard in the morning. At night it lives in the eaves. The lizards are out in full force also. The grass in always greener somewhere else, I guess. I like the weather and environment here a bit more, even though it is hot as hell sometimes. You can enjoy nights here because there are only a few mosquitoes out.
Maybe the weekend will be able to be salvaged. I can see tons of cleaning ahead of me tomorrow. When her parents come, I think the house has to be a bit cleaner than when my parents came. I don't want them to think the place is a pigsty all the time, but it is always disorganized and cluttered. Mostly mail. Bills. Rejection letters. Mail from the university a few blocks away. This apartment needs major reorganization.
Hey, Even, bra...you wanna tear this post up for grammar and spelling, English dude? Zack, not artistic enough for you, or 'underground' enough? Not 'indie' or 'punk' for the both of you? No 'cool stamp of approval' to give out? Tell me to chill out? Chillin' out's leavin' a motherfucker you don't know alone.
evan [email] said at 2:22 AM 04-21-2002: first off you mispelled my name. secondly, i dont seem to remember ever correcting anyones spelling or grammar. i could give two shits about spelling and grammar. i tend to be more concerned with racist comments etc.
also, let me break a little something down to you about how this shit works that you seem to not have learned yet. you are writing in a public forum. people will comment on the things you say and at times may even hold you accountable for your comments. if you say ignorant shit, you might get called out on it and it's not something that you can prevent by saying "leave me alone" or "im off limits!". if you want to be left alone, don't post on killoggs. if you want to be left alone, censor what you say so that it won't stir up any contraversy and critical thought. no matter how much you might like to think there is, there isn't a special set of "milky rules" on killoggs or in the real world and people will deal with you the same they deal with everyone else, without special consideration for your extenuating circumstances or history or present condition. you put your business out for people to see and they WILL become involved in it whether you want it to happen or not. if you can't handle it, go buy a journal cause them things don't talk back...
zack [email] said at 1:52 PM 04-21-2002: Ha ha- Just as in real life, you hear what you want to hear.
But you're right.
You can. Just don't expect the special treatment you so obviously desire. There's a difference between jokes and being rude/picking on people. I make jokes. You fly off the handle if anyone doesn't post "way to go, Milky!" or "Man, you're soo right! golly." Just so's you know, When I post something about how "white people" should EAT A BOWL OF DICKS, not only am I riffing on you and your endearingly 2 dimensional views on race relations, but more importantly, I'm riffing on Evan. There's also a musical joke there that you can ask Guy about. So whatever. As with most things in life, I suppose it's sort of one of those "like it or lump it" kind of things. You can keep on with the keep on, but you know what? so can I.
josh [email] said at 4:42 PM 04-21-2002: I agree with Zack.
Yes, Milky, you often do seem to get mad at people when the poke fun at or express disagreement with you. Natural, sure, but it's not something you can avoid in a public forum.
Then you seem to ask for it by calling attention to it and acting as if you've had your feelings hurt by it, or something and lashing out.
No one else on here seems to carry a grudge like you do, it's just not healthy, man. Learn to take things easier, you'll feel better.
xmeredithx said at 4:44 PM 04-21-2002: hey zack just an fyi: it should be "more important" and not "more importantly". importantly=not a word, at least when used with "most". and there's the killoggs grammar lesson of the day....
milky [email] said at 4:44 PM 04-21-2002: I really have no idea what this post has to do with me. I got the musical reference. That's the only thing I noticed. I was referring to another post.
It's not worth the effort of getting into. I'ma cuss and talk shit when I feel like it anyway...it's not like I ever needed an excuse anyway, really.
evan [email] said at 6:32 PM 04-21-2002: its really endearing how you believe you have the right to say and do whatever you want but don't believe that other people should. you seem to miss my point. you are absolutely free to say and do whatever you want and i support that right and applaud you for doing so! everyone else has that right too. learn it.
evan [email] said at 4:47 PM 04-21-2002: you hope i've learned to wear socks? i've always worn socks... although there were probably a couple days when i didnt cause i didnt have any clean ones... im a big fan of those low socks, the ones that dont come above your shoe line so you cant see em. i think it looks kinda goofy when a person has these tube socks climbing halfway up their legs when they are wearing shorts. i hardly ever wear shorts though so it doesnt matter. thats a habit i developed when i had knee surgery in 10th grade and had a vicious scar i wanted to hide so i started wearing pants all the time. then i found out that its not really punk rock to wear shorts anyway, unless they are from the army surplus store, but i dont buy things at the army surplus store b/c i don't support the army, another one of those punk rock things... ive taken to rolling my pants legs up to about half calf the last year or so cause it helps keep me cool, both temperature wise and hip wise... my parents make fun of my for it but whatever, they don't understand the kids these days... my dad also makes fun of me for shopping at thrift stores. "you coulda gotten all that shit outta my closet ten years ago! i had a shirt just like that one you bought. in fact that's probably mine. i think i gave it to salvation army." i have mixed emotions about shopping at thrift stores though. one some levels, especially when in new orleans, i feel cheesy shopping in thrift stores cause its a very hipster thing to do. but i don't care enough about clothes to spend real money on them, so 5 dollar pants are alright by me. also, shopping at thrift stores is a form of recycling and waste reduction, and im all about that. why, right now i have two recycling bins full of stuff just waiting to be picked up!
anyays, its kinda fun how you know absolutely nothing about me so ya try and make personal shots on the one or two random things you think you know (i was an english major, some of the music i listen to is "punk", and apparently you believe i used to not wear socks) instead of actually focusing on the coversation at hand. how any of that is relevant to the topic of racism that i was discussing i'm not sure. i've heard though, that when people can't clearly and intelligently argue their point or support themselves, they go for personal attacks. my parents told me that a person who lives in a glass house shouldn't go around throwing rocks though... did yours? i could probably make personal attacks but the thing is, im not interested in you enough as a person to do so. i don't really care about your past, present, or future situations and thats why i dont really discuss them and have never really replied to your posts, so i dont know how you can say that i egg you on. as far as i can remember i have never even been involved in a arguement or conversation with you on killoggs or in the real world for that matter. i mean, there was that one time i picked you up out of the pouring rain to give you a ride home so you wouldn't have to wait for the bus, and you sat with me and a friend while we ate pizza but that wasn't really a conversation cause it was mostly you talking and me staring at my pizza and counting the mushrooms on it. i don't know, maybe i just don't remember all the times i've "egged you on". i have a bad memory but im taking ginko biloba to try and fix that. josh says it works but i keep forgetting to take it... also when someone uses the phrase "egg you on" to me that implies that the person is just arguing to be antagonistic, which until now i wasn't really doing. i have honest, serious issues with many of your statements and while i've let them slide since you came onto killoggs and began making them, this week i decided to say something. if you want to avoid dealing with race issues by saying "i have a lot of black friends" and having that be the end, thats cool, but please, leave my feet out of it alright... what have they ever done for you... can't you have respect for the privacy of someones feet and what they choose to put on them?
milky [email] said at 5:33 PM 04-21-2002: No, man, thanks for getting me out of the rain. I wasn't staring at your pizza. I lived downstairs from your girl, but you were usually too standoffish or bein 'hard' enough to not bother to say anything other than Hey. I just hung out with Kiche.
I ain't worried aboutcha feet, or your punk or non punk rock tendencies. I don't live in no glass house. Fuck that. I can't see why you'd have any problems with any of my statements, b/c you barely post here anyway, other than responses.
It's odd that you come up with a list of questions out of a statement that's more or less said in jest...unless you have a white pride sort of issue, then ya know, that's your problem. It seems like you think more about race than I do, from ya list of questions. You sure you want to teach in NY with those issues, man?
See, I can turn dumb shit around so it doesn't make any sense either. What's the point? You may have READ a lot about race relations, you just haven't lived it. So drop it, ya know. It's a lame argument with someone who doesn't have a clue about another race besides maybe reading roots or taking a black literature class.
evan [email] said at 6:30 PM 04-21-2002: beautiful...
i didn't talk to you because, as i said above, im not interested in you as a person. i don't have to be friends with everyone and ive had more than enough exposure to you to know that i don't want to be friends with you. whatever insecurities you have that make you what to read all sorts of things into that statement isn't my problem. and you can ask anyone exactly how "hard" and "standoffish" i am...
once again, you know nothing about me and seem to be basing your judgements on some fictional understanding you have of my past. its ignorant. im not dealing with your past, im dealing with your present day comments... and i never read roots.
yes, i do think a lot about race as i believe any conscious person should. it would be nice to ignore race and have all the problems go away, but they wont. thinking about race and addressing the issues, as im attempting to do here, is a way to change things. and it is percisely because i think a lot about race that i am going to teach in new york. if shortsightedness or myopia or something else doesn't allow you to understand the connections between being concerned about race issues and teaching in underfunded public school districts, im sorry.
for someone unconcerned with my feet or punkrockedness you seem to comment on it alot. it's probably true that you don't care though and i never imagined you did but, as i said before, were simply making the comments out of desparation rather than sincere interest.
and as to why i am concerned with things you say on killoggs, it is the same reason i am concerned with things that happen in afghanistan, mississippi, california, england... things don't have to happen directly to me or effect me directly to matter to me. maybe im idealistic but i care about the shit that goes on in the world i live in... furthermore, it deals with the fact which everyone is reminding you of, that this is a public forum that hundreds of people are exposed to, people who don't know you and don't know any better. if you wanna have a killoggs stand off though, i was here first and i dare to say that i am better friends and more involved with one of the founders, if not both, than you are and anyways, mines bigger than yours...
milky [email] said at 7:11 PM 04-21-2002: well, honestly, i didn't know you disliked me before meeting me for sure, but I do now. You were just prejudiced against me, that's ok. You were human around me, but not a whole lot more.
Again, studying and TALKING about race relations won't help you more than ACTUALLY LIVING LIFE. And it's a shame that most smart people I know can pontificate all they want, but in life experience, they just iognore the question. Race isn't a thing you can work with like math. A million people can read this stuff on killoggs and come to the conclusion that YOU HAVEN'T. Because when I bring up examples from my life, you have none to bring to tghe table cept what 'you plan to do.' You're all about Food Not Bombs. I'm all about the NAACP. We just have different priorities because we have different upbringings and experiences that make our views on things different. That's all. You can say one thing and I can say another and maybe we're both RIGHT and WRONG. But I learned at one point, sometimes you just have to put the damn books down at take a look at everything in perspective. And I have no idea why this discussion is still going on. By whatever means or upbringing, you haven't has as much experience with other races as I have. Otherwise you'd own up to it.
My friend told me that the people down with 'human solidarity' that you speak of got the shit beat out of them in the LA riots. Human solidarity goes beyond speaking. It moves on to the point of going OUT OF YOUR WAY to understand something. That's how I got used to San Antonio, talking with Mexican Americans I made friends with at a bar (and at various work sites) and just started a dialogue. They related similar instances and offered questions we all had no answer to.
I don't know how you think that I don't know anything about different races or cultures or could imply that, insinuate it, or just beat around the bush about the points I brought up. I can't answer your questions. Maybe my friend Joel in LA can take a look at them and see what the hell you mean.
zack [email] said at 8:25 PM 04-21-2002: Wow, this just gets more and more absurd.
Look, if anything, Evan is going to actually DO more about 'race relations' by teaching and outreach with underpriveliged kids than all your bluster here about how down you are will. Sorry if that sounds cold, but you're the one who brought it up. Why do you keep saying the same thing over and over again?
I guess I'll also respond to a couple of your points from above while i'm here..
You said: "Zack, not artistic enough for you, or 'underground' enough? Not 'indie' or 'punk' for the both of you? No 'cool stamp of approval' to give out? "
Yes, that's it. You ARE a truly amazing judge of character! That was almost as good as the judgement you passed on that annoying office worker last week! I'm stunned at your insight, dude. I also bet even Evan's friends didn't realise how his softspoken nature was just an attempt to act all HARD.
You also said: " Tell me to chill out? Chillin' out's leavin' a motherfucker you don't know alone."
Ok. This is the kind of shit that pisses me off, instead of just amusing me. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. When you are feeling lonely or in a charitable mood, you can't NOT talk about 'the
Good Old Days' and how you and whoever did all this great shit or those funny conversations you shared, yadda yadda yadda. As soon as someone doesn't agree with you and actually says something to you about it, you pull the old " You don't know me enough to comment on my life!" card. Make up your mind.
(also, when I told you to chill out and smoke a blunt, it was after you cursed out Kiche on the main page because he didn't accept your drunken call at 5 am. It has nothing to do with this BS. )
milky [email] said at 8:45 PM 04-21-2002: well, you guys both seem to want to have the last word in, so go ahead.
I had a lot of good times with a lot of people on killoggs. I hope to visit some of them over the summer.
I still don't know what the hell both of you are talking about btw. When in doubt, make up shit, I guess...right? You can say the same for all three parties, so I can save you the chance of trying to get the last word in like on the ff mailing list. If anything is important in your life zack, it's pointing out the fault of others and having to get your last words in. God forbid if you didn't...
josh said at 8:54 PM 04-21-2002: Well, to be fair, Milky - you are the one who started this.
If you didn't want Zack and Evan to start arguing with you, why did you say the things you said in your post?
If you don't want to argue, take the high ground and ignore perceived slights. It's pretty bitchy of you to include digs against people in a post then not expect them to come back at you.
zack [email] said at 9:16 PM 04-21-2002: Whatever Milk. I guess posting half as much as you have on this thread is really asking for it, huh?
To respond: What the hell did I make up? Or were you talking about yourself? Also, you continually mistake backing up a point with trying to get the last word or being critical. You're the one who makes things personal here, and boo-hoo when others take offense. Save your crappy personal insight for someone who needs it. Like YOURSELF. It's amazingly easy to talk shit about others when you're in denial. If you don't like debating with me, then don't do it. If you can't back up your controversial opinions then don't air them. If you don't want to have a battle on a personal level, then don't bring it down to that.
END OF STORY
YOU DON'T KNOW ME!
MY PAST IS OFF LIMITS!
YOU'LL NEVER KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE DOWN WITH HISPANICS UNLESS YOU GREW UP WITH THEM LIKE I DID!
evan [email] said at 12:34 AM 04-22-2002: alright, a couple points here, beginning with the fact that me responding to your posts isn't me trying to get the last word in, it's me trying to continue a conversation. this is however a conversation i ama growing tired of because you seem to be completely missing my points, hearing only what you'd like to imagine im saying, and are just all around getting touchy.
now... you say that i disliked you before meeting you, which is incorrect on two parts. i don't dislike you and never have. i tend to only dislike people who have wronged me or a person i love, you've done neither. i clearly stated that im just not interested in you or having a friendship with you. its disinterest, not dislike. you say i was prejudiced against you... i dont know why you'd assume this. i met you, i believe, before i met most people on killoggs, cept maybe ben. i met you before ever discussing you with other people and in fact have never really discussed you with other people until killoggs, and even then its not you, its things you say. i met you around campus, sitting in the quad and at highland coffee are two of the placest i remember seeing you most frequently and it was things you said and the way you behaved in these encounters that led me to view you the way i do, not anything anyone else said. why this has become a discussion about whether or not i like you i don't know... its ridiculous but you lead us here...
now, you criticize me for not listing all of my black credentials in order to prove to you that im "down with black people." the first reason i havent done so is because i am unsure as to when this became a conversation about how many black people i know... i don't know when it became about how many black people you know either... i could go down the list of all my black friends but it seems like it would trivialize our relationships. they aren't trophies to me, their people... you criticize me for talking about race relations and not living them. again, this shows your ignorance regarding my life and is an silly assumption on your part. i do discuss race, with whites and blacks and asians and whatnot, many of these people who i discuss it with are close friends... its good to talk about your experiences and im unsure what exactly i would be talking about if i didnt have any experiences... "the unexamined life is not worth living" is always an idea ive tried to live by... i'm all about food not bombs and you're all about naacp? first, im involved in food not bombs, are you involved with the naacp. secondly, who do you think food not bomb feeds, affluent white businessmen? and in response to going out of my way to understand something, do you think food not bombs is a convenient thing? do you think going to poor black schools to teach and run summer programs in highschool was on my way? how about going into poor schools in new york for at least the next two years of my life? im not talking about human solidarity, im talking about human understanding, giving every individual their own chance. while your friend sounds like a true great mind of our time and philosopher i don't think what he says really pertains here, but when has that mattered?
and when exactly did i imply or insinuate that you don't know about other races or cultures? again, maybe i just forgot so feel free to point out a specific instance instead of one you just imagined... then i'll own up. and about beating around the bushes, if i ever didn't directly address one of your concerns it was either because i didn't understand the point you were tying to make or because they were completely unrelated to the discussion i am involved in. you seem to have your own internal dialogue happening though... most responses ive made has been itemized breakdowns like this one here so i dont know about beating around any bushes... but whatever...
maybe zack and i are the big killoggs assholes or maybe we are honest... who knows... i think josh is an asshole too but i could be confusing that with something else...
and tell your friend joel hello for me... if he's black, ask him if he'll be my friend too. ive decided i need more black friends...
evan [email] said at 12:51 AM 04-22-2002: oh, and if you honestly dearly sincerely want me to list all my "black creds" i'll try and appease you. i think it all began when i was around four... my mom tells a story about me suddenly realizing that one of my best friends skin was a different color than mine and asking "mommy, why is eric brown?" ahhh, question race even while i still wet the bed...
so anyways, let me know if you want me to show you my "down with black people" merrit badge...
milky [email] said at 1:13 AM 04-22-2002: I dropped it, all right. See what I wrote below. It's more rational and clear. Or as good as I can attempt both. The personal attacks were just bullshit, man.
milky [email] said at 10:02 PM 04-21-2002: It's all more or less true.
My deeper feeling are that I wish everyone had equal standing in every strata of life so discussions like this would never happen. It's unfortunate and a bitch that life isn't like that and that a white majority has played a major hand in it.
Saying 'I hate white people' is the inarticulate way of expressing anger at that fact. And sniping people down is wrong.
That's the short of it. I dug my upbringing. But it only worked in the town where I was from. I noticed, quickly, when I got to LSU, that people were just segregating themslves on campus.
Sure, my hometown is shit now. The past I lived in can't ever exist anymore. It's just the past.
Like everything else in my life. Nothing's really new anymore.
I don't know why I'm so antagonistic or insecure at times. Guess it's something I have ro work on. I vent WAYYY to much here. I need to get out of the apartment more and find something.
But, if I'm in the wrong, and I was, I apologize.
So Zack, Mr. K, I'm sorry. I'm not a bad person. I hope y'all can understand that. I'm just annoying, which is a different thing entirely.
milky [email] said at 1:18 AM 04-22-2002: Well, I wrote what amounts to a retraction. And I explained my feelings in a non-inflammatory manner. I don't like arguing, I know it seems like I do, but I don't. See what I wrote below.
evan [email] said at 12:40 AM 04-22-2002: "I noticed, quickly, when I got to LSU, that people were just segregating themslves on campus."
at lsu i became close friends with black people, white people, asians, indians, and some other foreign types, and some yankees too... yes segregation did occur and could be clearly seen in places like the quad of union. large groups of people tend to flock with those similar to themselves because its the easiest thing to do. this is also why people have prejudices... this is why i prefer to address people as individuals, on a personal basis, instead of walking into a group of black people or koreans in the quad and say "i am evan. im down with people like you."
milky [email] said at 1:04 AM 04-22-2002: yeah, i know what you're saying. That was just my initial reaction to LSU, though. i never went up to people and said, 'i'm down with you,' i just chatted up as many people as possible until I got comfortable with the city and the campus. i don't have any prejudices against anything except any instution of any kind that practices in overt or even sublte racist or prejudist behaviors.
The gist of the last thing I was saying though is what it is. about my inarticulation of anger based on what i mentioned.
thank god you weren't there my freshman year with the whole minority scholarships being funneled into white fraternaties. that really made me bitter about LSU as a whole. that and giving a racist, an openly racist person like theo a show on LSU and a reveille column.
that's probably the most rational defense i have and the one i should've stated initially.
Like I said, I'm sorry, evan for saying mean things to you and if i happen to run into you in the future, i'd like there to be at least some civility.
Also, I'd like to thank you guys for teaching me a much-needed lesson in civility and anger control. Racial conflict and strife is something I have a hard time talking about without getting emotional to some degree and I have to work on that.
evan [email] said at 3:36 AM 04-22-2002: ok, its dropped, and if it makes you feel better your apology is accepted. i never took any of your semi-personal jabs to heart because they either weren't even close to accurate or didn't make sense, so no need to feel bad.
and im not trying to be a dick but i have to say this just cause id feel wrong not. you can only stir up shit and spark battles and except to clean every thing up nice and tidy with a retraction and apology so many times before it quits working...
josh [email] said at 11:01 AM 10-18-2002: I think this post is a perfect example of the fact that you really do cause more drama than you seem to think you do, Milky.
Evan's words are very accurate : "you can only stir up shit and spark battles and expect to clean every thing up nice and tidy with a retraction and apology so many times before it quits working."
milky [email] said at 7:18 PM 04-20-2007: I am grateful I'm almost entirely out of the pathology that lead to this particular post.
I was exactly the person I needed to be then, because that's the type of person I absolutely can relate to and help now.
Some people, by nature of what gets them stuck, g'dammit...they get stuck. All I know now is that continually challenging unhealthy thinking leads to a healthy life as time goes by and one continues to try and never give up momement and growth in a positive direction.
For this, I have to thank Killoggs for being the place to just watch me fuck up and still tolerate me. It happened again as the years went by.
At some point, things became clearer. I look back at this post and really...it feels as though I can't connect to the person who wrote it or continued to respond compulsively in the comment threads. I see blind, ignorant anger for what it was, and overcompensation for low self-esteem and extreme insecurity...combined with an overall lack of knowledge of self.
