A big round of applause for Joe, who just aced his way through his first year of medschool!!! Way to go, babe!!!!!!!
Congrats to anybody else out there at LSU who has just completed great things. Sorry if the acknowledgement comes late, I've not been paying as much attention to Killoggs as I should have of late... Busy acing through my first year of McGill gradschool! Unlike medschool, I don't get ANY kind of a break this Summer. I'm still in class till June 28, then thesis work, more thesis work, and MORE thesis work. Hopefully I can get it all done for Spring 2002 convocation (OK, let's be realistic - Summer 2002 convocation) and spend a year in India (AIDS volunteer work) before jumping into the MD/PhD... I LOVE SCHOOL!!!!!
amy said at 12:01 AM 05-29-2001: Do you think we are sheltered in the US from AIDS information? I work with a girl who is convinced that the US government/intelligentsia/academia/ is just as sheltered, exclusive, and edited as countries such as Korea and China. She further claims that all European countries are much more open about everything and that their media and academic circles are also much more open and free. I think that every country on earth has a vested interest in sheltering its public from some things and the European countries are no exception, not one of them. Furthermore US history and scholarship is not closed to foreign influence as is Korea's and China's, not even close. This whole argument arose because I told her about an article I read about the Chinese govt not allowing any non Chinese scholars to see a new archaeological site that the govt claimed held proof of many facets of their claimed history. I said I could not trust any source without outside unbiased verification. She claimed the US did the same thing with its info and history.
Gen said at 12:13 PM 05-29-2001: All I can say is that while living in London, I found out about the American fighter plane being shot down (Dec 1998 US-UK air strikes - Irak) several weeks before it was made public in the US, and shocked Mar & Nathan with the news.
I agree with you in saying that ALL governments create/encourage propaganda / censure, though the extent varies according to political regime and time (especially war vs peace time).
josh said at 1:04 PM 05-29-2001: I don't really see how news can be kept secret to one nation unless, like China, that nation restricts internet access. Or possibly if the news is ONLY available in a certain language, I suppose. I read several UK sites on a fairly regular basis, as well as sites that are "meta-sites" which pull info from various news sources.
TV and newspapers probably aren't as good, but realistically, now there are quite a few news outlets that are unaffliated that one can turn to for news... Most of these are biased, but if they start to carry something (like Drudge and Lewinsky), the other media outlets will have to look into it. Multiple media outlets are a good thing, we need more media diversification.
Ricktify said at 5:48 PM 05-29-2001: True. Especially given the size of the U.S. In the eighties, it was a Lebanese newspaper that broke the Iran-Contra story. That story spread very quickly. A tabloid broke the story of the "bloody gloves" in the O.J. Simpson case. As long as there are independent news agencies, there will be no true security for any secret. People talk to damn much.
amy said at 8:52 PM 05-29-2001: But in the case of the plane being shot down and the Iran contra, I will ask two questions. Do you think that the American news agencies just did not know about it or did they intentionally ignore it or were they told to ignore it? Just because we are not the first to break a story, do you think we are hiding something. Do you think the ebanese broke the story first because they were closer to the action? Also, you must remember supply and demand in the US. The news agencies feed us what we want to hear. Most Americans do not give a damn if we blow up planes of countries they neither are or know nothing about.
I guess the media is really no what I was trying to discuss. We all know the biases of the media and for the most part that it is a business first and a disseminator of information second. I am more concerned about our academic culture. the story I read about China was that there was an archaeological find that proved that some dynasty existed for thousands of years before the Mesopatamian societeies and thus proved that the Chinese civilization was the oldest in the world. Of course the Chinese govt would not let any outside sources verify the authenticity of these artifacts. the argument made to me was that the US was just as bad as China and that the US did not alow any outside verification of its history. It would be like we were trying to deny slavery happened (which I am sure some people still do), and a bunch of French scholars had proof that it did happen but we refused to allow their voice to be heard in the US. Are there diverse voices heard on every aspect of US culture and history? If you look on the bookshelves in the library will you find book written about Custer by British and german scholars? Will you find dissertations on US politics being written in every university by foreign grad students? Are professors of foreign origin routinely denied tenure to keep them from speaking their dissident thoughts about America?
anotherben said at 9:22 PM 05-29-2001: there is probably a little bit of truth to just about everything anyone can imagine. just like there is supposedly a few molecules of Caesar Augustus' last breath in every breath we take. the impression i get from my occasional brushes with media sources on china is that they operate on foolish pride while the us operates on a more economically minded mindset. pride or greed..pride or greed... the us has produced a lot more good things in the past 200 years than has china...for whatever thats worth. undoubtedly things are gonna happen on occasion that a country for one reason or another is not gonna be too keen on sharing with the world..and so what.. the news will get around.. it always has in the case of everything you have ever heard about. custers dead.. slavery was a world-wide phenomenon.. the us sold weapons to lots of people..
..but the idea that china has proof that it existed long before mesopotamian cultures but wont let anyone see... sounds like some silly kid caught in a lie.
josh said at 11:31 PM 05-29-2001: I doubt people are being kept from speaking out by force... For example, there are several books published by mainstream publishers that claim JFK was assassinated by the CIA/LBJ/Teamsters/whoever or that Clinton and Reno killed people to cover up the Ruby Ridge and Waco fiascos (not to say I think any of that is true, just that I think it's admirable that these books are on the shelves). In America, the mainstream just tries to marginalize people with different views. Just like anyone taking part in a anti-Globalization protest or march is portrayed as being a crazy anarchist.
amy said at 12:26 AM 05-31-2001: So if there is a little bit of truth in everything/Gray/Gray/Gray, then why are people so hellbent on telling other people that everything they say is wrong wrong?
So we are not so little kid in our lying? We make some pretty bold lies. Maybe I just want to be better than everyone else in the world and am really tired of all the ex Pease Corps in my office constantly bashing the US. If the rest of the world is so great, get the hell out of here, and don't come back. Hypocrits.
mary said at 9:31 PM 05-31-2001: The Peace Corps itself is a progranda program. Its purpose is to introduce/acclimate people in the third world to Americans and our wiley ways so that they will be more likely to accept our corporations' presence. Of course the volunteers are also doing wonderful work, but that's not really why the government sends them overseas.
caleb said at 6:37 AM 05-31-2001: and a really legit question, at that. any amount of study in history/politics reveals that nations have a collective personality not much different than the individuals you meet on the street.
even the most upright citizen has skeletons in the closet. you can charaterise the evolution of governments really closely to people you know and how those people relate to similar situations.
bottom line is that as big and superhuman as the concept of the nation state is, it's still run by ordinary average people and subsiquently takes on a human flavor.
amy said at 8:36 PM 05-31-2001: I love you Caleb. You are the most measured military man I know and my whole family is in the military. The state as person, evolving a personality, so to speak is helpful, but is this every state? Does the govt/nation of China as closely resemble its people as the US resembles its own? What is the dividing line between nation and govt? How are the ideas of nation and govt related to culture? Is one the arbitrator, one the arbitrated, and one the mythical beast the others create?
mary said at 9:28 PM 05-31-2001: I don't even know where to start with this topic. Except to say that, yes, the Post considers national security before reporting certain news items. The decision is not taken lightly, but yes, they sometimes hold things.
amy said at 9:33 PM 05-31-2001: National security, another good consideration. So every time something happens we don't find out about til the cows come home, we can blame it on 1. National Security 2. American disinterest 3. Lack of information from the news agency 4. Coverup and national policy of disinformation.
Now at least i have four options, rather than just the US is just as evil as everyone else and take that you flag waving ninny. This makes me feel better, thank you everyone.
