For some reason they have unblocked Killoggs at my work so I have access to it again. Not really sure how long that will last so I figure I'll make a post while I have the opportunity to do so.
How have you been, Killoggs?
Today I bought my plane ticket back home. For good. Whatever good means. I didn't want to write about it until it felt official but I think buying my ticket seals the deal. I'll be back at the beginning of March!
I'm going to miss San Francisco so much but I'm looking forward to being back in Maryland and getting settled there. As much as I've loved living alone, it will be really nice to NOT live in a tiny box and actually have some space again (and not pay $$$ for it). Those are some things I'm looking forward to.
I will miss:
-It's It Ice Cream sandwiches
-The Ferry Building and the view of it from my office building.
-The homeless guy at Civic Center Bart who doesn't know how to play any of his instruments but plays them passionately (and how!)
Edinburgh Castle
-Not having snow
-Dottie's True Blue Cafe
-The Tenderloin
I will not miss:
- Hearing the word "Hella" thrown around all the time
amanda [email] said at 8:26 PM 01-15-2008: Bless you for getting the fuck out of this godforsaken city! I can't stand being on the East Bay, so I can't even imagine how irritating SF proper must be.
Also, if you don't have any plans, my 29th birthday festivities are happening on the 26th (though my birthday is the following day), at the 924 Gilman Street Project in Berkeley. Babyland is playing with Replicator. I will probably be bringing Key Lime Pies.
amanda [email] said at 7:41 PM 01-16-2008: We have a nice, comfy leather sofa that beckons you, if you don't feel like dealing with the BART to get home. Also, I am planning on forcing Cecil and Courtney to attend, and they're all living it up near Jack London Square at the end of Broadway.
carla [email] said at 11:44 AM 01-17-2008: I will gladly crash on your leather sofa if you'll have me...
I was hoping NOT to deal with figuring out a way home that evening and BART closes ridic early....Stupid BART.
art [email] said at 11:05 AM 01-16-2008: What is it with San Francisco? One the one hand it seems like the best place in the world to live, yet people often cannot wait to get out of there.
carla [email] said at 11:27 AM 01-16-2008: My friend Amelia put it this way (and it has stuck with me ever since, especially after I knew exactly what she was talking about):
"San Francisco is like an amusement park for hipsters"
That sounds fun, right? But eventually you gotta get off the ride and go home, know what I mean?
kiche [email] said at 11:44 AM 01-16-2008: hmmm... i've never been to san francisco; but as i've aged it looks increasingly better to me. am i being fed some sort of lie?
you are making it sound like it's just a giant version of williamsburg.
amanda [email] said at 7:34 PM 01-16-2008: Yeah, that's about right. People come here to "party" and be "young," and sleep late and be lazy and overindulgent. It's like college without actually enduring the element of coursework.
I really like Alameda but I detest most of the rest of the Bay. Still, I would much rather be back in the dive bars in WI, talking about how to properly de-bone a muskie with the alcoholic farmers than be here with the hipsters.
People from WI make light of my habit of moving away and insinuate that I'm somehow ungrateful for my upbringing. This is bullshit. I have a better appreciation for NE WI and Upper MI than I have ever had. I pity the people who never leave their states or hometowns.
I'm glad to hear you're ready for home, Carla. I had a lengthy conversation with a CEO in first class on a flight from Detroit to Green Bay (I got bumped due to overbooking) and he told me that he thought that young people were funny, in that they viewed moving as this break with their past and end to their previous existence, like someone could never go back to their home.
That's a ridiculous idea. The three other friends of mine from WI who have spent any amount of time away from it only realized how much it meant to us (the flawed and unflawed) until we left it.
I would give anything to suck down a Spotted Cow, grill some brats, and go ice fishing for pike right now. I want to go home too.
art [email] said at 9:34 AM 01-17-2008: Still, I would much rather be back in the dive bars in WI, talking about how to properly de-bone a muskie with the alcoholic farmers than be here with the hipsters.
josh [email] said at 12:22 PM 01-17-2008: hmmm i never lived there but have spent like a total of like 8-10 weeks in sf from visiting, working there in the summers, etc...
i love the close proximity to amazing outdoors stuff, the bay, the coast, etc... (though i guess you need a car to appreciate this stuff) the multiculturalism, how nice people are, the amazing food and cultural stuff. the amazing job opportunities (for a tech person)... the arts and stuff that are there...
HOWEVER the thing that keeps me from moving there, period, is the fact that i could never ever realistically buy someplace to live... it's just so $$$
courtney [email] said at 2:08 PM 01-17-2008: Man, what I have to say on this issue merits another post, but I'll touch on a few points here.
The young population of SF mostly consists of immigrants from all over the country. Locals are pretty rare in The City, although the ones who remain have been there for decades and live in homes that have quadrupled in value since they moved in.
The young population of SF also reeks of hipster geeks. They like to see and be seen, may it be at indie rock shows, web 2.0 parties, or just with their shiny laptop at Ritual Roasters.
It is a city full of self-centered people, but to me, it does not necessarily mean that they mean ill by others by it. A lot of people here are just ignorant to the fact that their selfish actions affect others.
Not to say that everyone there is like this, but it is a majority! There are certainly plenty of great people that rise above, but it is definitely hard to get to know people here.
That said, as a born and rasied local, I tired of that lifestyle, but still love The City. We moved right across the bay, where we have just as easy access to SF, with waaaayyy lower rents and less annoying hipsters.
courtney [email] said at 2:12 PM 01-17-2008: Also, in re-reading a lot of this thread, it seems like what most people hate about SF is the people. We all seem to love SF and everything about The City and Bay Area itself, but we all seem to hate on the people.
carla [email] said at 4:12 PM 01-17-2008: It is a city full of self-centered people, but to me, it does not necessarily mean that they mean ill by others by it. A lot of people here are just ignorant to the fact that their selfish actions affect others.
This is very true and what I have experienced a lot of. Perhaps if it were worth it to me to stick it out here, I could get past that. Maybe if I stuck around long enough, I would eventually find a real social circle.
I just don't have the patience or the energy to do that anymore though.
I fall into the camp of loving San Francisco to death AS A PLACE. People wise I have been very less than impressed. I was telling my mom when she visited, "If I could ship you and Angie and everyone I loved out here, I'd never leave..." but you know, that's a fantasy.
nelson [email] said at 1:30 AM 01-23-2008: As much as I love San Francisco, I can somewhat relate to this post. About a month ago, I went to SF for a little under a week. Maybe it's just because I'm living in NOLA now (one of the poorest cities of its size in the US), but the affluence/cost of San Francisco made a negative impression on me like it never had before. San Francisco IS a wonderfully artistic and diverse city, but it is ALSO an incredibly wealthy and expensive place to live that is slowly morphing into something else. My friends out there and I were talking about this phenomenon, and we all agreed that the city has become more and more gentrified with every passing year. Besides the Tenderloin and a few other select areas, nearly every neighborhood has a large yuppie population in it. This is a phenomenon that is becoming endemic of large US cities in general, but it seems like it's almost as difficult to live in SF if you don't have some sort of professional job as it is to pull that off in Manhattan. That's a damn shame because, although SF has been relatively expensive for the past ten to fifteen years, one of the things that drew me to the city was that people could scrape together a living, have a few roomates, and still be able to afford to pay their bills and go out and enjoy what the city had to offer. When you lose this group of people, you lose a vital part of the culture of San Francisco, and a vital component of what the city so great.
As far as this whole "the people suck in SF" discussion going, I will disagree to an extent. Personally, I met a lot of great people in my five years there, but it does take quiet awhile to get to know people and break into a social circle. I consider myself a pretty otugoing person and have never had difficulty making friends wherever I've lied, but it took about a year and a half of living there before I totally felt like I was settled in with a group of people to hang out with. I think the high cost of living stresses everyone out a bit, but I met a ton of friendly folks while living there. I think a big part of the reason that it takes awhile to get to know people there is that it is such a transient place and that people are always coming and going, and this encourages a culture of detachedness (which affects more than just interpersonal relationships, as others in this thread attest to).
SF will always have a special place in my heart, but I'm not as sold on returning as I was when I left. I almost feel like I want to move to a new city after I'm done with school and begin a new chapter and do everything that I did in SF all over again. Or maybe the whole thing is me. I had my experience with SF, and like a forgotten lover, I just need to move on. Anyways, I will conclude by saying that SF, while certainly not perfect, is a beautiful place with its share of good and bad people like anywhere else, and there are way worse places to live in this country. Any place is what you make of it.
courtney [email] said at 4:29 PM 01-24-2008: I don't think the people in SF suck as a whole, but I say most people I've met there are in that realm. I agree that it is hard to get to know people, and it definitely takes a while to form a good group of people you can call close friends. I think the fact that this happens to almost everyone also makes people nurture those close circles more rather than breaking out of those "pods" and meeting new people. It's an interesting cycle.
The high cost of living definitely stresses people out, and it does affect the fact that The City is full of transients, which affects peoples' difficulty in forming close friendships. I do like your theory about the culture of detachedness.
SF is becoming something I'm not as big of a fan of anymore, with its high expenses and large yuppie population. Still a nice place to visit, but hard to live in.
"Any place is what you make of it."
Totally agreed, 100%! I might as well just say "Me Too" to the entirety of your comment. ;)
art [email] said at 3:13 PM 01-17-2008: Great explanation. I found it hard to know people there as well. I visited a few times to hang with friends (that had moved from elsewhere) and each group of friends seemed to hang in its own 'pod' and pods didn't seem to interact with other pods
amanda [email] said at 5:34 PM 01-17-2008: Yep. My boyfriend's been living here for over 8 years now, and he definitely has a group of friends who we occasionally hang out with, but he spends far more time talking on the phone and maintaining communication with his friends and family from Indianapolis. Other than Killoggs people (whom I don't see all that often), my ex-boyfriend from WI (who seems to have entered into the hermit lifestyle), Ben's bandmates, and a friend from the EA forums and his wife, I haven't managed to make any friends out here at all.
There's definitely a ton of people that I "know" out here, whom I run into at "events," but it doesn't seem like people bother to form deeper connections or relationships with one another. I took this personally at first, since I wasn't used to hanging out with people and NOT having them ask for my email address or phone number or want to make plans to do something. Then I realized that that's just how people out here are. They don't seem to get to know one another or make plans or get close to friends. It's extremely depressing, actually. It's like their friends are accessories that they just happen to run into at parties or shows, and the rest of the time they can ignore them and not invest in caring about someone or dealing with their potential faults. No wonder so many people out here are in therapy. I would be too if I didn't have a network of close trusted friends to rely on and complain with when I was upset about something.
I also like the East Bay a zillion times more than SF. I can't imagine paying the rent to live in SF or ever attempting to purchase a house there, nor would I want to even if I had the money. There are so many beautiful, wonderful places and neighbourhoods in the area, and it seems like everyone I've met who lives in SF proper explores exactly zero percent of the Bay Area outside their city. I mean, Alameda is fucking wonderful and I bet that most of the people in SF have never bothered to come out here and see our nuclear wessels.
carla [email] said at 6:03 PM 01-17-2008: I would love for you to show me some of your Alameda, Amanda!
I wish I had explored the East Bay a little more but people in SF really don't venture to the East Bay very much, so I never had anyone to do it with.
When I think about how much I pay for a glorified motel room, I sort of get sick to my stomach. It's just about INSANE. I'm really glad that I'll be free of that soon.
It's like their friends are accessories that they just happen to run into at parties or shows, and the rest of the time they can ignore them and not invest in caring about someone or dealing with their potential faults.
courtney [email] said at 9:31 PM 01-17-2008: It is true that a lot of the people here are very comfortable in their "pods" (as Art put it) and have a hard time reaching out to others.
An interesting effect of this is what you mentioned above, the hermit lifestyle. I got so tired of behavior like this that this is one of the reasons I slinked into hermit-dom. Unfortunately, I got a thick skin and became jaded about people here, so often I'll assume most people are like that. :/
You are so very right about SF people not wanting to venture and explore past The City limits. A majority of those people are immigrants, and they feel like there is no better world than the 7x7 square miles of SF, so why bother? They don't take the time to explore the rest of the Bay Area, and it's a shame, really.
myriam [email] said at 11:57 PM 01-17-2008: I'm from Alameda. It's a wonderful, wonderful place to grow up. My aunt went to Alameda High and had her graduation ceremony on the USS Nimitz (one of her classmates' fathers was the Admiral.) Head over to 1083 Peach St (a few blocks off High) and check out my childhood home!
reggie [email] said at 12:07 AM 01-16-2008: Wooo-hooo!!!!!!!!!! Welcome back to reality! By the way, I really was planning on visiting you out there, honest.
carla [email] said at 10:45 AM 01-16-2008: I am a bit sad that you will never get to experience a Dottie's pancake or a stay at the Hotel Carlafornia, but I feel that there are fun times ahead....
(and now I can bug you at work on the regular!)
carla [email] said at 2:19 PM 01-16-2008: I am not on here enough to know your steez.
But if you are being serious...You've clearly never been to SF before.
courtney [email] said at 1:54 PM 01-17-2008: I'm sorry to hear that you're leaving our dear city, but it sounds like you are doing the right thing for yourself. I can empathize... it is hard to be away from home for too long!
courtney [email] said at 9:37 PM 01-17-2008: Yeah, me too. You are certainly lucky to be going home to your family, where you belong!
Family is one of the reasons why I stay in the Bay Area, but unfortunately, my family is starting to physically drift apart, moving to farther away places. It's sad, the end of an era, and I hesitantly accept the changes.
carla [email] said at 4:16 PM 01-17-2008: It'll be good to see you too! Also, I'm glad Bmore is working out for you. Let's go to the Golden West when I get back! (JK, I know your feelings on that place).
brad [email] said at 2:14 PM 01-17-2008: I'm really enjoying Baltimore. People are friendly, driving isn't a hassle, and it has about all of the amenities I care to have in a city. I can see myself living here a long time.
josh [email] said at 5:00 PM 01-24-2008: yeah baltimore is nice. it has alot of the attributes of a big city but still feels kinda small. and its cheap and people are nice.
now if they could just work on that whole crime and schools thing...
rick [email] said at 6:34 PM 01-24-2008: now if they could just work on that whole crime and schools thing...
If they resolved the crime and education problems, more people would want to live in the Charm City and it would likely not be as cheap. Indeed, it might become more developed and then it might not "feel" as small.
cecil [email] said at 11:59 PM 01-17-2008: I find myself wanting to defend SF/Bay Area but most of the negative points made here are totally valid. This place often sucks.
Honestly, when I heard Carla was going to move here I said to myself, "Oh, shit. She doesn't know what she's in for." Same with Amanda. But I didn't want to jinx it or be a drag, and anyone is capable of making a good life for themselves here.
San Francisco is a great place to live if you're self-sufficient (financially and personality-wise) or you have a very sure plan (i.e. got a good job lined up or are confident you can provide for yourself). It is very tough place to get by and just hang out.
What you have in SF is an unique kind of weather, topography and economy and I really think those things drive the social culture. It's segregated on many levels. I think this difference trumps any expectation you may have based on any other city.
-It never gets freezing but when it's cold (which could be mid-summer) it takes you by surprise and pisses you off.
-There are very few arteries of travel in and out of and through the city, causing traffic that pisses you off.
-It's a small city so when you get to your destination it's crowded with pissed off people, and whatever you're doing, it's expensive.
What does this make you want to do? STAY HOME WITH AND STICK WITH YOUR POD OF FRIENDS.
I love SF right now because I have a good job, Courtney and I live in a great pad, I have a small circle of good friends who I see rarely and they don't take the frequency personally, I can eat cheap or expensive food that's almost always delicious, all kinds of entertainment and cool places to go are there if I want them but I mostly like staying home.
But I've been there--hating this miserable city and its miserable people. I hated growing up here and was much happier when I moved to LA.
nelson. said at 9:53 PM 01-24-2008: I think the last part of this response speaks volumes. You love SF right now because you have a good job and you live in a nice place with someone whose company you enjoy. Sometimes it's easier to pin a mental funk on the city itself rather than the situation you're in. Your present situation sounds good and, no surprise, you're digging SF. It's all a matter of perspective.
brianbibbly [email] said at 10:55 AM 01-18-2008: I agree with the above. It is better to have tried and failed (even though you didn't really fail) than to have never tried at all.
Get thee home to those who miss you. ANd when you arrive in Baltimore, please kill Duff from Ace of Cakes.
reggie [email] said at 10:49 AM 01-19-2008: Not to speak for Carlita but given her well documented previous time in B-more I don't think Maryland necessarily = Baltimore.
myriam [email] said at 9:04 AM 01-23-2008: It's pretty awesome that you did it! You went out there, you made it work, and you learned a lot--too awesome. I'm glad and proud of you. I know too many people who say things like, "oh, i always wanted to do that, but..." or whatever. It's always so tragic! And now you can be like, yeah, SF, whatever, I went out there and I kicked its butt and now I'm home!
