just got off the phone with ma, who tells me that not only am i marrying my cousin to a very nice man with a graffix jester tattoo, not only will the ceremony be conducted on a civil war battlefield where thousands died and i swear i used to smell blood when i was a kid...
but we will all apparently be in period dress. CONFEDERATE period dress. with the stars and bars flying and men shooting guns.
oh-ho-kay, then!
mind you, my family has no grand war history. my uncle was way into the re-enactment scene (i can't explain it if you didn't live it, but for little girls it pretty much involves collecting sticks and boiling soup. slaves? what's a slave?). he owned all the time-life books on the subject and various things made from fine pewter. there are sepia-toned photos of him all over the place in the weird regalia. but as far as i know, no one in our family fought for the confederacy.
but that hasn't stopped my motorcylce-riding, pickup-driving, pall mall-smoking family from thinking that this, somehow, is our history. mostly because they want it to be.
i mean, i love them, but do we have to add on MORE cracker accoutrements to our crew, guys? having a shauna joye, a shalana joye, a santana, and a savannah in one brood counts for nothin'?
i guess it's okay that a heathen woman representing a made-up internet church is marrying them, though! if they make me wear a bonnet, fuggit.
shauna [email] said at 11:49 AM 07-19-2005: my other cousin has a variation on this. but the flames are behind it, and it says "daddy" through it. no shit.
denman [email] said at 1:47 PM 07-19-2005: No I really meant burn this bullshit rascist symbol, and while you're at it burn everyone who believes in it alive.
chrisx [email] said at 2:13 PM 07-19-2005: denman, are you one of the deluded and uneducated who believe that the Civil War was over slavery and not state's rights? It was economic, not humanitarian. Many blacks fought and died under the Confederate flag defending the south. I am a damn yankee myself, so I am not defending the south of yore, but while some may misuse the flag to represent their own racial feelings, that is not what the flag actually stands for.
denman [email] said at 2:21 PM 07-19-2005: Actually (as far as the flag goes) Tolerance.org says (and I learned this growing up, but this sums it up nicely):
"Although the CSA's national flag went through several changes over the years, the flag often associated with the Confederacy - the "Southern Cross" - was never the official flag. Rather, the Southern Cross served as the CSA's battle flag and, in an elongated form, as its naval jack.
In the 1950s and 1960s, Southern governors and legislatures resurrected the long forgotten Confederate battle flag, flying it over state capitols and incorporating its image into state flags. They displayed the Southern Cross as means of protest against the federal government's integration policies. White supremacist groups like the Ku Klux Klan and the White Citizens Councils also adopted the battle flag as a symbol of white sovereignty.
Their use of the battle flag - as opposed to the actual CSA national flag - was not an innocent historical error. Leaders chose the "Southern Cross" because it represented militant opposition to black liberation. After all, it was a battle flag - a symbol of war.
In recent years, many Southern states have grappled with their Confederate history — and more specifically with the Southern Cross as a symbol of that history. After a boycott and mass demonstration led by the NAACP, South Carolina legislators voted to remove the flag from atop the state capitol building. In Georgia, Governor Roy E. Barnes recently led a successful effort to change the state flag, which had displayed the battle flag prominently as part of its design. Community leaders in Mississippi voted against a similar change of their state flag."
I was in MS for the vote on the flag, and it was one of the most angering, frustrating, and disheartening momments of my life.
denman [email] said at 2:21 PM 07-19-2005: Actually (as far as the flag goes) Tolerance.org says (and I learned this growing up, but this sums it up nicely):
"Although the CSA's national flag went through several changes over the years, the flag often associated with the Confederacy - the "Southern Cross" - was never the official flag. Rather, the Southern Cross served as the CSA's battle flag and, in an elongated form, as its naval jack.
In the 1950s and 1960s, Southern governors and legislatures resurrected the long forgotten Confederate battle flag, flying it over state capitols and incorporating its image into state flags. They displayed the Southern Cross as means of protest against the federal government's integration policies. White supremacist groups like the Ku Klux Klan and the White Citizens Councils also adopted the battle flag as a symbol of white sovereignty.
Their use of the battle flag - as opposed to the actual CSA national flag - was not an innocent historical error. Leaders chose the "Southern Cross" because it represented militant opposition to black liberation. After all, it was a battle flag - a symbol of war.
In recent years, many Southern states have grappled with their Confederate history — and more specifically with the Southern Cross as a symbol of that history. After a boycott and mass demonstration led by the NAACP, South Carolina legislators voted to remove the flag from atop the state capitol building. In Georgia, Governor Roy E. Barnes recently led a successful effort to change the state flag, which had displayed the battle flag prominently as part of its design. Community leaders in Mississippi voted against a similar change of their state flag."
I was in MS for the vote on the flag, and it was one of the most angering, frustrating, and disheartening momments of my life.
chrisx [email] said at 3:33 PM 07-19-2005: Tolerence.org needs to tolerate the Confederate Flag until rainbows flow from their asses.
I really don't care that much, as I said , I'm a Yankee and personally I do not like the Confederate Flag or "the south will rise again" stuff because, being from the North, I am smarter and better looking than anyone from the south.
Tolerate this.
art said at 2:51 PM 07-19-2005: Yes, it was economic. And the economic system of the South was slavery. Nobody ever claims the Civil War was started to free the slaves.
The causes of the war will be found at the foundation of our political fabric, in our complex organism, in the fundamental law, in the Constitution itself, in the conflicting constructions which it invited, and in the institution of slavery which it recognized and was intended to protect. If asked what was the real issue involved in our unparalleled conflict, the average American citizen will reply, 'The negro' and it is fair to say that had there been no slavery there would have been no war.
I don't understand this modern compulsion to say the Civil War was not about Slavery. For sixty years before the outbreak of hostilities, compromise after compromise was made to keep the country together. And each compromise was about Slavery. The Missouri Compromise, The Compromise of 1850, The Kansas-Nebraska Act hell even the compromise that made Lincoln President. The government was constantly occupied with slavery - from John Brown and the Kanasas Raids to the Fugitive Slave Act and the Dred Scott Decision allthe way back to the Northest Ordinance. Things finally boiled over when Lincoln was elected, but had been festering since the founding of the Republic
rick [email] said at 3:38 PM 07-19-2005: Some of it was definitely about Southern Honour. That may seem like a fig leaf nowadays but people took that concept seriously back then. Many Southerners took it as an affront that they were seen as un-American and worried about what Republicans might do to the South.
cecil [email] said at 10:08 PM 07-18-2005: Shauna, Shalana, Santana and Savannah. That is amazing. I wish yalls last name wuz Danna, a la Rosanne Rosanna.
shauna [email] said at 11:52 AM 07-19-2005: we also claim a LeeAnne, a Janessa Rose, a Devin (girl), Colton, Noah, and apparently the newest addition will be Seana (spelled like Shauna, but pronounced See-Anna).
Oona said at 12:13 PM 07-19-2005: what is it with the south...my side had those names, plus more Sissys and Bubbas, Peachy-Pie, Dolly Boots, Uncle Ditty...
shauna [email] said at 12:39 PM 07-19-2005: oh, yes, we do have a Bubba! we just call him Bub now. and Bub's sister is Sissy! ok, so i am part of a tradition, not simply part of a trailer park.
all trailers are not created equal, btw. it's not an insult. my nonnie's trailer was a palace.
brandonr said at 7:44 PM 07-19-2005: We have a sissy on both sides, a three-hundred pound, truck driving bubba. At least 6 cousins I can think of with first names formed from two separate names, e.g. John-Michael + Paul +[surname]. Sometimes I'm around them and I feel that I am different than they... perhaps... less than...
shauna [email] said at 11:45 PM 07-19-2005: it's sad, but my truck driver uncle lost all his teeth from the crank. crank's a problem. when he went to jail, we got him new teeth. he stopped by for christmas with his drving partner (uh, they probably don't call each other that) and it was so heavy. we hadn't seen him in 10 years. my mom gave him all the photos of the wife and kids he lost she had saved for him. it was heavy.
benATthelocustDOTorg [ url ] said at 11:53 PM 07-18-2005: oh. my. god. I must be there! After all, I'm related to the folks who owned (and then hobbled) Kunta Kinte.
art said at 9:58 AM 07-19-2005: This is amazing. Up here everyone likes to claim an ancestor came over on the Mayflower (that musta been one big-ass ship). Its too bad Shelby Foote just died or you could have invited him to be the guest of honor. Maybe someone could build a coffin and dress up a body to look like him to oversee the festivities.
julie [email] said at 10:37 AM 07-19-2005: I used to work in Colonial Williamsburg, bonnets and all...
But I think if you have to dress up, they should let you go in drag. Those shiny black boots, tailored uniform, a little cap on your head. I think it would look sharp!
abby [email] said at 12:33 PM 07-19-2005: ooh, i think you'd make the sexiest little soldier. tailor that shit up a little bit, and mess with people's preconceived notions.
shauna [email] said at 12:43 PM 07-19-2005: ha! poor hubs' brain would explode.
i was thinking that there is prolly no one on either side of the fam, or any friends, that will be offended in the slightest by this flag thing. weird!
my poor sweet jewish husband. eh, at least they aren't into WWII, if you know what i mean.
oh, antietam. where there is a boss swimmin hole, btw.
shauna [email] said at 12:14 PM 07-19-2005: now i'm going to pass out! what, am i gonna wear a wig??
also, there will be many bikers there (pagans? i think? western MD?), which i gotta say is not in period. women in lace-up leater are not period. and she is making her favors out of chicken wire. i'm panicking now. calm down, seana.
kiche [email] said at 3:49 PM 07-19-2005: i think this may be a reference to the old pioneer days of the south, back when two men had a beef they were tied to opposite sides of a log and traded "licks". usually this meant they punched each other, but it has been reported that on occasion they went at each other with bowie knives.
incidently this is where the phrase "getting down to the lick log" comes from.
rick [email] said at 3:52 PM 07-19-2005: Admit it, Kiche. You read up on this, own the needed knives, and are longing for the day when you can "get down on the lick log" with somebody.
brianbibbly [email] said at 1:21 PM 07-19-2005: I don't know. All i know is that it is a painting of a cat with a rose in its mouth with a confederate flag background and that it is ridiculously funny.
brianbibbly [email] said at 1:27 PM 07-19-2005: Exactly. Totally carney style. All Iron Maiden fishbowl glasses, mirrors and a variety of southernisms.
anthony [email] said at 1:41 PM 07-19-2005: i wish i could see this wedding. i used to see people in confederate uniforms and southern belle dresses on an almost weekly basis since my school was right next to the south carolina state capitol.
denman [email] said at 2:00 PM 07-19-2005: Okay here we go, once and for all, from a real southerner who lived around this bullshit for 23 years:
Romanticism about the confederate era of the south is fucking inbred, rascist, revisionist history crap. Those involved are a waste of flesh, and should be treated as such. The history of the flag alone should be a tale tell sign. Clearly removed from the south after they lost, it was only flown on gov't buildings during desegregation as a "message" to the rest of the country. Yakees (anyone above the southern tennesse border) may think it's "cute" to use this symbol, but they are just ignorant to what it means to really live with this. Egads I feel like I'm sitting in Waffle House arguing with some fifty year old inbred at three a.m. all over again.
So in conclusion, long live the south; "The south will rise again," burn in everlasting hell fire you piece of shit dumnfucks.
denman [email] said at 2:07 PM 07-19-2005: Sorry, for some reason this has always been an extreemely touchy subject for me. For at least ten minutes after this is brought up, in any context, I see red before I can think straight.
anthony [email] said at 2:06 PM 07-19-2005: actually the confederate flag flew over the state house of south carolina until about 2001 I think. Then they moved it down to right behind the confederate monument that faces north, at the edge of the capitol property. There's an african american monument to the left of the state house, but it's not nearly as vibrant as the stars and bars so many southerners hold as a link to their heritage.
brianbibbly [email] said at 2:49 PM 07-19-2005: My two cents: I think the stars and bars is a legitimate historical relic which has it's place in museums or on the grounds of southern governmental buildings (for historical context) but never flown with or next to the American Flag. It has no place in modern government.
The flag does, however, represent a heritage of a group of people who fought and died for the preservation of their lifestyle and ideals. The slavery issue (which is most people's knee jerk first reaction when they see the confederate flag) was just one of a bundle of issues encompassed by the confederacy, the greatest of which, i believe, was state's rights (against the ever expanding federal government). To deny that there isn't a "heritage" there is the true revisionist history.
Unfortunately, the symbol does represent and call back a horrible time for African-Americans, and they have every right to demand it be removed from modern governmental fixtures. I do not believe that right extends, however, to a blanket eradication and villification of the symbol itself (i.e. denman's post above) and the other values it represented and represents.
In the end, I know that most of the rabid adherance to these antiquated symbols by some southerners isn't so much to incite racism, but more to thumb their noses at the populace which ever increasingly looks down their noses at them. Hell, that's the reason why I post this stuff in the first place, because I know that at least one person is going to freak out about it. Well, that and they are, honestly, funny as hell. I mean, really.
Now, that isn't to say that their aren't a great many people who use the confederate flag for racist purposes. There are. I condemn those people for their ignorant attitude. But I don't condemn them any more than I condemn anyone who abuses any symbol to incite hatred or to instigate people.
Finally, don't think that just because I write this that I would buy, wear, or otherwise support the stars and bars. I don't, but not because I have an aversion to it. I do have an aversion to the ridiculous misconceptions that people (mostly people from northern big cities) have towards the south and sometimes feel the need to defend it. Sometimes.
anthony [email] said at 6:16 PM 07-19-2005: i don't have a problem with people flying it, however I still think it's innapropriate to display on any public government property.
reggie [email] said at 7:41 PM 07-19-2005: I remember when I went to N'awlins Ben and I thought it would be hilarious if I bought one of those Confederate flags ballcaps.
