I started a fiction blog today. The piece that's up there is just a short sketch that took me fifteen minutes to vomit up; it's definitely not even close to good yet and will be tweaked over the coming time.
It's scary to make yourself vulnerable to criticism from all comers, but if I'm ever going to produce anything worthwhile, I feel like I'm going to have to do it. I need to learn to not take everything so personally. Trial by fire.
Y'all are a smart bunch, and good writers to boot, so I am asking for your time, if you'd ever like to read things I write.
cecil [email] said at 10:44 PM 07-18-2005: Since you say it's not close to good yet, I don't know if you're asking for comments about that story right here and now, but you're right about opening up to criticism; it's scary and necessary and brave. It's especially scary to put up something like this and get zero responses.
I'll give you criticism but not until you think it's good. Now THAT'S scary!
cecil [email] said at 11:35 PM 07-18-2005: to elaborate on that last statement: If you say this is vomit and isn't close to good, and I say "well it's really good!" then I come off like a fool and a brown-noser, but if I say "this needs a lot of work" then you get to say "yeah, well like I said, it's not even close to good." So that's not really trial by fire it's more like trial by pudding.
brad [email] said at 3:20 PM 07-19-2005: Yeah, I agree, for "vomit," that's pretty good. I've dabbled a little in writing, and I guess I'm ok, but it's still struggle for me. I think it would take me more than 20 minutes to write that much, and the fact that you can do it so fluidly should be encouraging, albeit vomit.
It defnitely struck a note with me -- it's always nice to be reminded that I'm not alone in my nearing-30 angst.
jess [email] said at 6:49 PM 07-19-2005: I was definitely asking for criticism, but when it gets smoothed out a little bit. I need to edit it and come back to it; I've done a little tweaking but I still need to sit back and fuck with it, obviously. The further you get from the moment of the draft's creation, I've always found, the better perspective you have.
Feel free to give me suggestions on how I can smooth it out, though. I really appreciated Denman's suggestions and am going to respond to them in a second.
denman [email] said at 2:48 AM 07-19-2005: Okay so, overall I liked it. Clearly it's hard to draw a strict critcism since I am too close to the subject matter, but here goes anyway:
The beginning of the first paragraph is abit disjointing, especially since for most of the piece I can draw clear pictures from the description. It also seems a little uneven in going from a tight, meticulous, small image, to a large sweeping image, and then flip flops until the end of that Paragraph. Sometimes the word/description structure takes me out of the moment, i.e.:
"The bands were just beginning to load in; she was studiously ignoring the clunking and thumping and scuffling thereof" The "thereof" to me, cut this off to quickly.
The second paragraph keeps a dead on unity in description (wording and subject matter) that flows very well, and paints a vivid picture.(Once again, all to me). The last line is nice, but feels like (though I know the intention is to link them), it was cut and repasted from the end of the first Paragraph.
I don't know, I like the dialogue that follows. Now that I have a clear picture from the second pph, I can "see" them saying these things.
Maybe it's a coloquialism, but "quirked" takes me right out of the momment. It's seems to me that the build up to this contemplative action, isn't quite justified. Definatelly in subject matter, but not quite in excecution. I like this passage once it gets going, but for some reason the word "memes" seems abit clinical for the organic tone/tempo.
I like descriptions as names, but for some reason "Crooked Nose" took me out of the momment for the opposite reason "memes" did earlier.
"Crooked Nose nodded, blinked, stared in that direction, and then started off." for some reason this list didn't seem to fit well with the rest of the passage, that was very smooth.
" Keith leaned over and bumped her with his shoulder. His hands were still in his well-worn pockets. She could hear him jingling a couple of coins together. His hands had to be sweaty. "Ange, I think you and I find meaning where it isn't." " For some reason I really liked this section since, as the reader, I thought the end was one character's unwitting commentary on the thoughts of the other character, in the beginning of the paragraph.
Also, I really like the wording of this sentence:
"You mean if we didn't chew on everything constantly, we'd be content?" Chewing seems to fit the tempo/tone of the piece, as well as the visualizations.
I did not get the "bad joke," but that could just be my poor reading comprehension.
Once again, "orbited in" seems abit sterile compared to the warm earthy language of most of the piece. On the filp side, I really like those small details that fit the style, like the gravel cutting her hand.
"He made a sweeping but vague gesture with his awkward, skinny, hairy arms." This, too seems a little bit "listy" for the rest of the passage.
I like the images in the next pph, but I think they could be connected in a smoother fashion.
"(she didn't even remember when that had been, but she could bet their eyes had both been watering from the smoke and they'd both been claustrophobic from the low ceilings)" There is something awkward about this that takes me out of it for a momment.
From there to the end, the problems are along the same lines. Smoothe sections cut up with odd wording, of different language, or choppy sentences.
Overall I liked this alot, or I would not have written much MUCH more than I intended. This I blame on the At the Gates/Prayer for Cleansing playing in the background. Anywho it's all just my opinion. (Okay maybe I like doing this kind of thing, and that's why I wen't overboard. Just remeber two things: I don't have an English degree, I read non-fiction.) And with that, good night.
cecil [email] said at 3:57 PM 07-20-2005: This is a story that's minimal in terms of "plot". It's about a moment and reflections on the meaning of that moment in the lives of the characters, which is very poetic in parts of your story. But the real story going on here that is interesting yet unsatisfying at this stage is about the interaction of the two characters, who they are and their relationship.
I don't think it's a good idea to get too bogged down on refining your wording at this point. I think it would be good for you to develop the characters so that when they make their observations the reader cares more about them. Right now I'm very unclear about them. I know more about YOU as the author, so for that reason I'm interested in your observations, but you need to put that into the characters.
My favorite line of the whole story is this: "She didn't own a piece of clothing that wasn't permanently stained." This tells me more about the character than anything else, and actually allows me to imagine for myself what this looks like and why this is so about her. It involves my interpretation. Ange makes a few conclusions in the story: "She wondered what made him so heavy. Force of habit, she guessed" This informs me about her but shuts me out because I hear her conclusion. If you strike that the last sentence then I get to wonder and become curious about her curiosity and what might motivate her. Put it this way, be a little more "hard to get" with her thoughts, be flirty, imply more and conclude less.
I get the feeling that you want to convey that Keith and Ange are old friends who know each other well? But in the dialog Ange seems insecure, seeking keith's approval and validation. She fidgets with her hair, "...held out her hands, momentarily helpless, giving the words she didn't have over to him...", she uses we in "Are we just more selfish...", she shows an effort to bond to him, she's asking all the questions, she says something corny and regrets it. In contrast Keith is relatively cold and isolated, one line answers without an effort to engage in more conversation, he shrugs "Could be. Does it matter?" the attitude conveys disinterest in her company even. I'm not sure if that is your intention?
Then Keith bumps her shoulder which is the first sign of affection he may have for her but any emotion he may have is still not clear to me. Again, he makes a statement and she responds with a question "You mean...?" So I can't help but feel this is a painfully lop-sided relationship where she is interested in engaging him in conversation but he is unavailable except to state his predetermined opinions. He uses the term "we" also but in the context of telling her what she is and should do.
So basically this is what interests and confuses me about the characters. Who are they to each other? Is the guy like that with everyone or only with the girl? Is the girl trying to impress him, or is she supposed to be super comfortable with him? She seems very uncertain and is reassuring herself about who she is and who they together are with his answers to her questions. Does she have any opinions that contrast his? (in the story she does not seem to).
The conclusions in your story lead me to believe that it is about a certain level of acceptance and comfort with being in the late 20s and living a certain lifestyle, yet Ange seems uncomfortable, uncertain and anxious to label and make conclusions about anything to which Keith has all the answers. This makes for a very interesting relationship dynamic but I get the feeling you're trying to tell a different story here. The real story is leaking out from the minimal character development just enough to leave me feeling confused.
Maybe it's just me but I see a lot of interesting conflict between these two, which is often good for a story, but Ange seems focused on reassuring herself that there is none.
jess [email] said at 6:20 PM 07-20-2005: It's interesting that you see this in the characters; I wasn't really expecting anyone to pull it out. The two themes - the characters and the conclusion - bookend one another. I'll definitely work with that. Thank you.
cecil [email] said at 4:45 PM 07-22-2005: I like it a lot better! I'm not even going to analyze why specifically but I definitely felt drawn into her character; she's definitely more real to me, more complex and I can empathize with her now. The broken up conversations are kind of disorienting but I like that for this story, it's like the way people really remember events, in significant pieces. Very nice. Now, if you wanted, I'd fine tune any wording that could be improved, consider if some descriptions could be more colorful. But that may not be your style so, like a drawing style it depends on how much shading and detail you want.
I had a teacher who told me that you should feel like every sentence is as excellent as you can make it. I think about that when I really try to refine something.
